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Queen Mother Champion Chase 2021

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  • Also read back what you said about PTKO and your reason not to back her.

    With regards Notebook, I have him antepost at 40/1. I wouldn't discourage you taking 16/1 either. You can see how he behaves before the Festival and decide whether to cash out or stick.
    Luck is a dividend of sweat. The more I sweat, the luckier I get.

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    • Originally posted by Silverbirch View Post

      You've kind of done it. Back CPS and Altior and don't really worry about the rest in my opinion
      I can't wait to see Altior on Saturday and see if he's the horse of old - I suspect he isn't.

      I think he's beatable but Hendo is very bullish, saying that Politologue has never got within 7 lengths of him (which is clearly false).

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      • https://www.attheraces.com/news/2020...omeback-target

        Same old Ruth talking bollocks.
        Be interesting if not enough rain for waiting patiently is good news for not enough rain for Rouge Vif to run.

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        • Originally posted by Faugheen_Machine View Post
          Hendo is very bullish
          Rearrange the last 3 letters, add a 't' and you're there.

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          • I'm not keen on Altior at all. Been a massive fan of his and backed him many times but I think he has regressed in the last 2 years. He could still be good enough to win at the weekend but he could also easily be pulled up in the race. That's how I see it. He looked awful in his gallop v Epatante. Yes, she is the Champion Hurdler but she barely got out of a walk and he was struggling to keep up with her. That's not what you want to see from a Champion 2 mile chaser. He looked more like a 3 mile horse. Not for me at all .

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            • A horse notorious for being lazy and needing to be niggled to put in an effort being travelled all over by the champion hurdler isn't exactly surprising is it? (And he was also a week behind her in prep for their respective races)

              Loads of horses travel better than Altior but beating him is another thing entirely

              I'm normally very ageist when it comes to horses but this isn't a normal 10 going on 11 year old and this isn't a division with any depth

              Il certainly not write him off until he runs a poor race personally.

              The weekend is make or break for him, if he wins then he has every chance in March. If he loses then it would be likely age has caught up with him.
              Last edited by FinalFurlong91; 3 December 2020, 07:55 PM.

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              • Originally posted by FinalFurlong91 View Post
                A horse notorious for being lazy and needing to be niggled to put in an effort being travelled all over by the champion hurdler isn't exactly surprising is it? (And he was also a week behind her in prep for their respective races)

                Loads of horses travel better than Altior but beating him is another thing entirely

                I'm normally very ageist when it comes to horses but this isn't a normal 10 going on 11 year old and this isn't a division with any depth

                Il certainly not write him off until he runs a poor race personally.

                The weekend is make or break for him, if he wins then he has every chance in March. If he loses then it would be likely age has caught up with him.
                I nodded loads through that. Would have been a perfect post, but no smilies let's any post down

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                • Originally posted by FinalFurlong91 View Post
                  A horse notorious for being lazy and needing to be niggled to put in an effort being travelled all over by the champion hurdler isn't exactly surprising is it? (And he was also a week behind her in prep for their respective races)

                  Loads of horses travel better than Altior but beating him is another thing entirely

                  I'm normally very ageist when it comes to horses but this isn't a normal 10 going on 11 year old and this isn't a division with any depth

                  Il certainly not write him off until he runs a poor race personally.

                  The weekend is make or break for him, if he wins then he has every chance in March. If he loses then it would be likely age has caught up with him.
                  Completely agree with your whole post FF91.

                  Yes Altior is older but I can’t see how opinions can be formed that he has regressed from what he’s done the last 2 years.

                  Five 1’s to his name and a second over a trip too long and against horse who had everything perfect for him on the day. There is no facts yet to show he has regressed.

                  Now an opinion of him regressing would clearly be viable had he been beat 2/3 times, tailed off in a race, haven’t seen any of that.

                  He is old/older now that doesn’t mean he has regressed, take a look at Faugheen, think that sums it up.

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                  • Originally posted by Lobos View Post
                    I'm not keen on Altior at all. Been a massive fan of his and backed him many times but I think he has regressed in the last 2 years. He could still be good enough to win at the weekend but he could also easily be pulled up in the race. That's how I see it. He looked awful in his gallop v Epatante. Yes, she is the Champion Hurdler but she barely got out of a walk and he was struggling to keep up with her. That's not what you want to see from a Champion 2 mile chaser. He looked more like a 3 mile horse. Not for me at all .
                    I'm more confident knowing you're not keen.

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                    • Originally posted by Lobos View Post
                      That's how I see it. He looked awful in his gallop v Epatante.
                      This is also lurking in my thoughts. Said before that i'm hardly educated on how to read such workouts, but it wasn't a huge confidence booster for backers! Think it was played down as Altior being a week behind in his prep compared with Epatante, i'd love to eat whatever they feed them if a week of it makes that much difference!

                      But then again...
                      I've just re-watched the Newbury race from earlier this year, he jumps like a stag and although the finish was more attritional than I remembered, he finds plenty when asked and runs through the line like there was a good amount left in the tank.
                      I also just watched the 2018 Champion Chase to see if it helped highlight the supposed significant decline and to be honest, it looks worse than the Newbury run! Doesn't travel all that pleasing on the eye in the latter stages, Nico has to spend a fair old amount of time trying to get him to wake up but when the horse finally decides it can be arsed, boooom, off he goes!
                      I've re-watched a few others (i'm ignoring the Cyrname duel) back to 2017 and tbh some days he looks flashy, some days laboured, some days somewhere inbetween. Gets the job done each time though.
                      Re-watch the 2017 Arkle for example, hardly a steering job! Altior getting his usual wake up call on the turn for home, Charbel was up infront at the 2nd last before falling. Altior wins well enough but has to work for it more than you'd expect if you just looked at the result and with Cloudy Dream 6l back in 2nd, it's not a huge stretch to imagine it being a tough call had classier individuals lined up (all due respect to Cloudy Dream, but you know what I mean!).

                      Maybe Saturday will say different, but for now i'm happy enough to believe the Epatante workout was just Altior being Altior.

                      Also, I think due to the relatively small number of times we've seen him, there's a habit in some quarters to forget that whilst Altior will be 11 in March (10 in real World birthday terms), Chacun Pour Soi will be 9 (8). He's not some young upstart.
                      Last edited by Jorvik; 3 December 2020, 09:15 PM.

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                      • Originally posted by germanshepherd View Post

                        I'm more confident knowing you're not keen.
                        Ouch, that hurt

                        Thinking about it, re your profile name it all makes sense now. When I was a kid I was attacked by a loose Alsation and later on in life I was savaged by 3 of them when their owner couldn't control them passing me on the pavement. You've come back to haunt me again !
                        Last edited by Lobos; 3 December 2020, 09:54 PM.

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                        • This article about Altior includes a video of the full workout with Epatante for anyone interested:
                          https://www.racingtv.com/news/altior...e-why-he-won-t

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                          • Just rewatched the gallop - considering Epatante was a week closer to race fitness I was impressed with Altior.

                            I put the question to members of the FJ forum... would your champion hurdler not be faster than your champion chaser on the flat anyway? Surely if you had a chaser that was quicker on the flat they would always just stay over hurdles?

                            im not sure if I have worded that brilliantly but hopefully you get my point.

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                            • I’m quite disappointed I missed the 14s for Altior for Saturday and the Champion Chase.

                              I think that’s a belter of a bet because if he wins saturday, he’s a genuine 3/1 shot you’d imagine. If he loses, I wouldn’t fancy him for the CC that much anyway.

                              Hopefully there’s some 10+ plus available for the special on Saturday.

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                              • Originally posted by Topofthegame2021 View Post
                                Just rewatched the gallop - considering Epatante was a week closer to race fitness I was impressed with Altior.

                                I put the question to members of the FJ forum... would your champion hurdler not be faster than your champion chaser on the flat anyway? Surely if you had a chaser that was quicker on the flat they would always just stay over hurdles?

                                im not sure if I have worded that brilliantly but hopefully you get my point.
                                Yes, I'd expect a champion hurdler to be quicker but Epatante was virtually walking and visibly being held back so that Altior wasn't disappointed.

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