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Originally posted by Crolwey113
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As in he doesn't. -
Ok but take for example the weekend. Mullins said openly have to talk to JP as he may want to split his novices in the 2m and Flogas race to have a runner in each.Originally posted by archie View Post
Which they ended up doing - he clearly has had a big say, no?Comment
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JP (Frank Berry) has more of a say, particularly with the handicappers. Also, because he has horses with many different trainers, Frank performs a liaison role to make sure that they're all in sync.
Ricci basically has nearly all his eggs in Willie's basket and the rules are basically that what Willie says goes. He may occasionally ask for an opinion but, after changing his mind several times, it will generally be his say so. Remember Vautour?Comment
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Don't think this is completely true. "what willie says goes"Originally posted by archie View Post
It almost certainly involves some discussion and persuasion to get the owner to agree to Willie's suggestion, and this is always better when trust has been earned between the 2 parties.
The owner pays for his expertise and opinion after all.
However, if an owner insists then I'm sure Willie would accommodate them within reason, although this may mean the relationship is not for the long term.
I should imagine syndicates lean on Willie much more as obviously there are probably many opinions in the mix at this point. So his say would be much more influential.
It wouldn't surprise me if contractual stuff allowed his almost free reign in some cases. His reputation could demand this.
I'd also expect for their to be some arm twisting and bullshit used to manouvre horses about also, such as jockey availability, recent work, opposition horses.
It's not a secret that Willie & Ruby persuaded him to run Vautour in the Ryanair, claiming his recent work was not quite perfect, and that Djakadam had an excellent chance and Ruby would ride him over vautour in the Gold Cup, but thought with Ruby on Vautour in the Ryanair they could win that race. (was probably more Ruby than Willie wanting this also, )
Good old fashioned persuasion.
Not so much "what I say goes".
He'd not have a business for very long with that attitude towards people with money.
He's not that dumb.Comment
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I do remember Vautour - Rich came out with the below saying he and Willie discussed and made a decision. We have to take him for his word as only they know what was said everything else is guesswork.
As I would expect the trainer gives his opinion which he is paid to do on the best placement of a horse, he is the expert watching & training these horses everyday so it would be silly to go against the guy you are paying and trusting to place and win races with your horses.
My simple point was like any business - like it or not the more money you pump into a business the bigger a say you will have.
Anyway back to the mares chase“He hadn’t been working the house down. Last year before he came here, he was doing cartwheels and we haven’t seen that same type of performance from him in his work. He’s not working badly, he’s just not working to that standard.
“The plan all along has been to run in the Gold Cup, and even as late as Sunday it was to run in the Gold Cup. Yesterday we [Ricci and Willie Mullins, Vautour’s trainer] started talking about it and Willie said he’s just not the horse he was last year coming into the Festival. If we run a 90% Vautour in that race [the Gold Cup] we’re going to do the horse some damage. The best chance he has of winning this week is in the Ryanair.
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Shattered Love vs Elimay at the moment on Saturday at Naas
I know SL doesn’t get much traction here but if BDD doesn’t come she very much sets the standard the younger horses need to reach in my opinionComment
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I really do like Shattered Love as the value bet for thus race now. C&D winner, which was against the geldings too. She has some fairly high class form in the book.Originally posted by Hurricane fly View PostComment
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And I keep on saying.....she's NEVER been beaten by a mare in a chase. She too will escape a penalty and get weight from the likes of Elimay and Colreevy despite having won multiple graded races and being the only Mare to have won the Marsh chase at the Fez.Originally posted by ComplyOrDie View PostComment
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Elimay to give SL 5lbs as well.
Might be worth covering SL.
In saying that, SL hasn't ran over 2m since 2017.Comment
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Someone hammered me for putting up Shattered Love NRNB in the Ryanair last yearOriginally posted by Hurricane fly View Post
Rightly so tbf, beaten 24L at 20/1 (although the 'tip' was at 33/1)
I might back her at 18/1 as a bit of a saver.
Although I do really like Elimay, so not sure I need to.
Might see what her price is on the day instead.
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If the likes of Benie and Kettle miss the race and she beats Elimay this weekend she'd go off fav wouldn't she ??Originally posted by Kevloaf View Post
Someone hammered me for putting up Shattered Love NRNB in the Ryanair last year Rightly so tbf, beaten 24L at 20/1 (although the 'tip' was at 33/1)
I might back her at 18/1 as a bit of a saver.
Although I do really like Elimay, so not sure I need to.
Might see what her price is on the day instead.
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Ahh right. Your comments were in keeping with the Mares Chase. Soz.Originally posted by jack1092 View PostComment
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