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Supreme Novice Hurdle 2019

Angels Breath I thought ran very well , will come on bundles for this and still a player in Supreme , for a horse so shy in race experience his hurdling was very good , and he also broke previous track record coming second giving winner 5lb , whats not to like. A fast pace and G/S ground at Cheltenham will be perfect ,the bookie chappies dont know what to make of it (big varients in prices) and many good judges on here so you can go with belief he will improve again or he needs further or he just a over hyped horse. Personally think Hendo dont want him up against Champ. Fact he still wants to come here tells me he thinks he better than Mr fisher and Cham Platinum.
 
Angels Breath I thought ran very well , will come on bundles for this and still a player in Supreme , for a horse so shy in race experience his hurdling was very good , and he also broke previous track record coming second giving winner 5lb , whats not to like. A fast pace and G/S ground at Cheltenham will be perfect ,the bookie chappies dont know what to make of it (big varients in prices) and many good judges on here so you can go with belief he will improve again or he needs further or he just a over hyped horse. Personally think Hendo dont want him up against Champ. Fact he still wants to come here tells me he thinks he better than Mr fisher and Cham Platinum.

Champagne Platinum goes Ballymore, according to Hendo on open day.

Agree about Angels' Breath, have cashed and re-backed NRNB now double figure prices, upped stakes slightly to accommodate returns difference from original bets but happy with that now.

Just waiting on what to do with Klassical Dream, will make a decision after Fast Buck tomorrow now.
 
Champagne Platinum goes Ballymore, according to Hendo on open day.

Agree about Angels' Breath, have cashed and re-backed NRNB now double figure prices, upped stakes slightly to accommodate returns difference from original bets but happy with that now.

Just waiting on what to do with Klassical Dream, will make a decision after Fast Buck tomorrow now.

Interesting news about Platinum that is ,convinced now AB goes Supreme and with a real chance in a open affair.
 
Yet again Elixir form getting franked. And still double figures? bonkers Imo.
 
Yet again Elixir form getting franked. And still double figures? bonkers Imo.

I like the lines of form through Elixir too so also have Itchy Feet at 40s (beat Grand Sancy & then a length behind Elixir giving him 5lb at Cheltenham) & Thomas Derby at 33s (beat Elixir by 3 lengths at Cheltenham and trainer convinced he’s not had a race run to suit since - needs a true run race over a stiff 2 miles). I’ve got Elixir at 25s.

I’m not convinced the Irish have a particularly great vintage of novices this year, so I’m happy to take the value with the best UK form lines IMO.
 
Im not on Angels Breath - missed the big prices & couldn’t back on just hype but for those who did I wouldn’t give up all hope. Menorah (albeit had more experience) was fav for ages then got beat at 1/2 in late Feb & drifted to double figure odds before beating Get me out of here (I think the Betfair hurdle winner) in the Supreme!
 
I like the lines of form through Elixir too so also have Itchy Feet at 40s (beat Grand Sancy & then a length behind Elixir giving him 5lb at Cheltenham) & Thomas Derby at 33s (beat Elixir by 3 lengths at Cheltenham and trainer convinced he’s not had a race run to suit since - needs a true run race over a stiff 2 miles). I’ve got Elixir at 25s.

I’m not convinced the Irish have a particularly great vintage of novices this year, so I’m happy to take the value with the best UK form lines IMO.

I think ... I think ... that I agree with that .... those 3 I can't rule out and they are all so closely linked
 
It wasn’t franked! It was undermined. Read the form, mate. That was regarding EdN, in response to the doctors post.
 
A great stat for the supreme, only 2 of the last 16 winners were unbeaten over hurdles. Good news for EDN and AB backers.
 
Im not on Angels Breath - missed the big prices & couldn’t back on just hype but for those who did I wouldn’t give up all hope. Menorah (albeit had more experience) was fav for ages then got beat at 1/2 in late Feb & drifted to double figure odds before beating Get me out of here (I think the Betfair hurdle winner) in the Supreme!

I remember that CK. Dicky Johnson gave Menorah one of the worst rides I have seen a horse given, when he was beat before the supreme. Redeemed himself a month later.
 
The ground was very quick yesterday and Nicholls doesn't rate the winner as a Supreme horse. Plenty of excuses for Angels Breath but the unraced half-sister needed further and I think this one will too.

Nicky wants the Supreme because he's got others for the Ballymore.
 
Why am I looking at Annamix at 28/1 NRNB thinking that's smart.:highly_amused:
 
Just catching up on yesterday's racing. I'd be surprised if Dai Walters runs AB in this now. It'd make perfect sense to split them up now.
 
It wasn’t franked! It was undermined. Read the form, mate. That was regarding EdN, in response to the doctors post.

Angry post TCH.

Off you go, enlighten me....... the floor is yours
 
Why am I looking at Annamix at 28/1 NRNB thinking that's smart.:highly_amused:

Had the same thought process on here during the week Kev. For me it will depend how Fast Buck goes today now. I think he could well end up Mullins no.1 IF all goes well today.

Annamix is weak in the exchanges and many believe a step up in trip is required too.
 
Angels breath had a hard race - not taking it as a positive
 
2017 I started the Supreme on -19 pts non runners
2018 was -23.5 pts non runners

This year, at the moment, it's +0.75 pts (hooray):triumphant:

However, my strongest fancies / best returns have been at different stages Annamix, Eldorado Allen, Angel's Breath and Klassical Dream - and for different reasons (rubbish/injured/Ballymore) none of them now remain confident selections which is why I'll be having an all green book in this race (again!)


Bit boring to read I imagine, so taking my position out of it, trying to pick the winner of this, or where the value is... I think you HAVE to take on Al Dancer and Fakir D'oudaries at their prices.

Al Dancer doesn't strike me as the best horse to ever try to win on the back of a handicap, so better horses have failed and NTD is so bullish so often that you have to take it with a pinch of salt. I'd be wary Betfair Hurdle form because the 20/1 and 100/1 shot placed and although he did it easily, he's an 11/4 shot - Vautour was 7/2J and principle of relative prices year-on-year forces me to look elsewhere.

Fakir D'oudaries - he's too short on what he's acheived on the track. Fusil Raffles has beaten some of the horses he beat at Cheltenham by further so we've no evidence he's the best of the juveniles and taking on older horses is not factored into his price, albeit he'll get 8 lbs. I'm not ruling him or Al Dancer out of winning, but they're not good prices to over come the negatives. Jospeh I think would run him against Sir Erec in the Triumph, he said he has no issue with running them against each other, but the owner is driving this move and Fakir and Sir Erec would need to both be top drawer to pull it off. I hope they can, but I wouldn't back Fakir at his price now.

Aramon is going a little under the radar, despite being a Grade 2 and Grade 1 winner for Willie Mullins. The nagging doubt is that Willie Mullins doesn't seem to have his string in the best form so we've not really seen the pecking order. He looked held by Quick Grabim and Klassical Dream for me would also be slightly ahead (albeit only slightly) so I do like him, but I get the impression he's not considered to be THEIR best, and that can't be good enough when he's not mopping up the division anyway?

Mister Fisher - likable attitude and place claims, but stable vibes would tell you Angel's Breath was thought of more highly and that'd put me off at a similar price to the above, who has better form. (Aramon)

I'll assume KD and AB don't run - which brings Elixir De Nutz next in the betting. I don't think he's standout value by any means, because Itchy Feet is still 33/1 and Thomas Darby 25/1 - and EDN is 10/1. They're all closely matched on various runs (with Grand Sancy giving them all a bit of a boost)

Vision D'honneur looks held by Aramon, I wouldn't have Felix Desjy on my mind....


So if I was having to start this race now, as of today (ignoring Fast Bucxk who's an obvious NRNB candidate now)

Itchy Feet 33/1 and Thomas Darby 25/1 - 2 against the field - each way.
Aramon 12/1 next best.

I'd back those 3 - I could let the others win at their prices.
 
Angry post TCH.

Off you go, enlighten me....... the floor is yours

Sorry, that wasn’t mean to be an angry post, just an exasperated one. Thought it was covered in this thread already. But anyway, Southfield Stone was beaten 4 lengths off level weights in Jan by EdN. AB has just lost by a head carrying 5lbs more. On that form, they are basically equal, are they not?! It’s then simply a subjective question of who you think will improve the most. I’d suggest it’s likely to be the horse with fewest runs. You can also use Seddon as a horse to compare with AB and it’s a very similar output. You could also say it’s likely SS has come on since Jan, further supporting AB.

Now, i’m not saying AB wins the Supreme. But EdN’s form points you to others. In this case, via SS and Seddon, you can still make a case for AB. But through his form you can also make cases for both the Olly Murphy pair. And the most obvious one is Grand Sancy, where, based on Nicholls’ comments, you would now have to assume GS is very progressive and his win over Sceu Royale was actually genuine as a piece of form.

EdN may well win - it’s a very open Supreme (and one I personally think wil turn out to have produced some very good horses) - but if you like EdN’s form, I can’t see why, at the prices, and considering actual clock times, you wouldn’t look at the Olly Murphy pair, AB and GS ahead of him.
 
2017 I started the Supreme on -19 pts non runners
2018 was -23.5 pts non runners

This year, at the moment, it's +0.75 pts (hooray):triumphant:

However, my strongest fancies / best returns have been at different stages Annamix, Eldorado Allen, Angel's Breath and Klassical Dream - and for different reasons (rubbish/injured/Ballymore) none of them now remain confident selections which is why I'll be having an all green book in this race (again!)


Bit boring to read I imagine, so taking my position out of it, trying to pick the winner of this, or where the value is... I think you HAVE to take on Al Dancer and Fakir D'oudaries at their prices.

Al Dancer doesn't strike me as the best horse to ever try to win on the back of a handicap, so better horses have failed and NTD is so bullish so often that you have to take it with a pinch of salt. I'd be wary Betfair Hurdle form because the 20/1 and 100/1 shot placed and although he did it easily, he's an 11/4 shot - Vautour was 7/2J and principle of relative prices year-on-year forces me to look elsewhere.

Fakir D'oudaries - he's too short on what he's acheived on the track. Fusil Raffles has beaten some of the horses he beat at Cheltenham by further so we've no evidence he's the best of the juveniles and taking on older horses is not factored into his price, albeit he'll get 8 lbs. I'm not ruling him or Al Dancer out of winning, but they're not good prices to over come the negatives. Jospeh I think would run him against Sir Erec in the Triumph, he said he has no issue with running them against each other, but the owner is driving this move and Fakir and Sir Erec would need to both be top drawer to pull it off. I hope they can, but I wouldn't back Fakir at his price now.

Aramon is going a little under the radar, despite being a Grade 2 and Grade 1 winner for Willie Mullins. The nagging doubt is that Willie Mullins doesn't seem to have his string in the best form so we've not really seen the pecking order. He looked held by Quick Grabim and Klassical Dream for me would also be slightly ahead (albeit only slightly) so I do like him, but I get the impression he's not considered to be THEIR best, and that can't be good enough when he's not mopping up the division anyway?

Mister Fisher - likable attitude and place claims, but stable vibes would tell you Angel's Breath was thought of more highly and that'd put me off at a similar price to the above, who has better form. (Aramon)

I'll assume KD and AB don't run - which brings Elixir De Nutz next in the betting. I don't think he's standout value by any means, because Itchy Feet is still 33/1 and Thomas Darby 25/1 - and EDN is 10/1. They're all closely matched on various runs (with Grand Sancy giving them all a bit of a boost)

Vision D'honneur looks held by Aramon, I wouldn't have Felix Desjy on my mind....


So if I was having to start this race now, as of today (ignoring Fast Bucxk who's an obvious NRNB candidate now)

Itchy Feet 33/1 and Thomas Darby 25/1 - 2 against the field - each way.
Aramon 12/1 next best.

I'd back those 3 - I could let the others win at their prices.

sensible stuff as usual kev,
only thing i'd add is Thomas Darby has looked pretty exposed since his maiden win.
It's the one thing that disturbs me with this line of form.
Tolworth looking like it may be the key again this year.
And there's no doubt in my mind that the mullins novices are his reserves and therefore likely not good enough.
I'd be going with grand sancy/elixir reverse forecast right now.
with the fly's being al dancer and the rest of the field in a wide open race.