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RSA Chase 2020

Comparing Minella Indo to Champ so far over fences what have we really learned?

Both can jump a fence is about it. They made one or two novicey errors each but jumped well in the main. The race Laurina won was ran at a fairy sedate pace and wouldn’t have suited MI at all. Had Minella Indo ran at Newbury I’m confident he’d have beaten Dashel Drashel just as comprehensively as Champ did.

Going back to last season I’m still sure the best piece of form in the book with a view to the RSA is Minella Indo’s AB victory. He raced too freely, pulled the reins out of Rachel’s hands for the most part but still won cosy going away from them at the finish! Im not sold on how good the Aintree race Champ won was at all.
 
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SeanRock said:
Comparing Minella Indo to Champ so far what have we really learned?

Both can jump a fence is about it. They made one or two novicey errors each but jumped well in the main. The race Laurina won was ran at a fairy sedate pace and wouldn’t have suited MI at all. Had Minella Indo ran at Newbury I’m confident he’d have beaten Dashel Drashel just as comprehensively as Champ did.

Going back to last season I’m still sure the best piece of form in the book with a view to the RSA is Minella Indo’s AB victory. He raced too freely, pulled the reins out of Rachel’s hands for the most part but still won cosy going away from them at the finish! Im not sold on how good the Aintree race Champ won was at all.
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Champ won, and won well. I dont believe that minella Indo would have beat him on the performance he showed against laurina. I'd find it very optimistic

Everyone seems confident that MI is going to improve a ton, be the one to beat in the RSA.... and leave that well behind.

So will be interesting to see how it plays out.
 
Scooby91 said:
Champ won, and won well. I dont believe that minella Indo would have beat him on the performance he showed against laurina. I'd find it very optimistic

Everyone seems confident that MI is going to improve a ton, be the one to beat in the RSA.... and leave that well behind.

So will be interesting to see how it plays out.
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Not sure we are saying MI is the one to beat in the race, just saying he is a player.
 
Plenty more back & forth to be had until they both hopefully line up on the Wednesday in March. I don’t think it’s fair to judge MI too harshly on the 2nd to Laurina, the race was ran to suit her & he was never going to live with her pace when it turned into a bit of a sprint turning for home. As we both said the 3m chase at Leopardstown will shed far more light on his RSA credentials!
 
Before he runs.
What's the general consensus of champs opposition on Friday?

Black op, imo is at his best trip, he dosent see out 3m.
Last year, He was seemingly beaten by very good ones over fences and hurdles.
there is absolutely no shame in that.

Hes come back this season seemingly better than ever, and absolutely hosed up. He's a huge scalp imo, If champ could beat him over 2 1/2, where last time out, imo. Champ looked like the further he went the better he was.

Black OP to make all and put chaps jumping under all sorts of pressure.

And He's not the only fancied grade 1 winner in the entries.
 
Serious race if Black Op and Champ run, both jocked up so looks like game on. Champ has more than enough pace for this distance if he jumps well enough on the day and I do expect him to win, but it will be a proper race. Would be great to see Vision Des Flos run here 1st time over fences in a grade 2, wouldnt know what to expect from him, his hurdle run at Aintree was very good and hes a bit under the radar for the RSA.
 
Have already back battleoverdoyen at bigger prices, but won't touch him now.

The value for this race at this current time is Carefully Selected 33/1 EW. Very strong stayer and tough as you like. He trained by the master and is far to good for the 4 miler. If it comes up a soft, he is a massive and player in this.

Champ is class, but as an ante post bet 5/1 is to short 4 months out.

Backed Carefully 33/1 EW
 
Scooby91 said:
Before he runs.
What's the general consensus of champs opposition on Friday?

Black op, imo is at his best trip, he dosent see out 3m.
Last year, He was seemingly beaten by very good ones over fences and hurdles.
there is absolutely no shame in that.

Hes come back this season seemingly better than ever, and absolutely hosed up. He's a huge scalp imo, If champ could beat him over 2 1/2, where last time out, imo. Champ looked like the further he went the better he was.

Black OP to make all and put chaps jumping under all sorts of pressure.

And He's not the only fancied grade 1 winner in the entries.
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Black Op is no better opposition in my book than Laurina. He look decent at Stratford. Champ has G1 form over 2m4 so there shouldn't be any excuses tomorrow regardless. Especially with the price he is. I would fully expect him to win tomorrow. With his 2 years spent over hurdles any slight setbacks to his form would worry me.
 
Scooby91 said:
Before he runs.
What's the general consensus of champs opposition on Friday?

Black op, imo is at his best trip, he dosent see out 3m.
Last year, He was seemingly beaten by very good ones over fences and hurdles.
there is absolutely no shame in that.

Hes come back this season seemingly better than ever, and absolutely hosed up. He's a huge scalp imo, If champ could beat him over 2 1/2, where last time out, imo. Champ looked like the further he went the better he was.

Black OP to make all and put chaps jumping under all sorts of pressure.

And He's not the only fancied grade 1 winner in the entries.
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personally, i think the race its absolutely tailor made for Black Op, long galloping straight putting everything under pressure, and i'm going to back him. He's a serious horse in the right conditions and Tom George has had a clearer run with going into this season
 
Scooby91 said:
Before he runs.
What's the general consensus of champs opposition on Friday?
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Cracking match up, but would have to agree that it's no better race than the one Minella Indo run in on debut.

I'd expect Champ to win with a run over fences under his belt, though it won't be easy against BO, I think his class gets him through tbh. Wouldn't mind him losing, he might drift a little (unlikely I know)!

As for Minella Indo, I'm 100% behind what has been said by a few on here, that his season is slow to get under way, and he'll be much a better horse as the season progresses with the Spring festivals in mind, for that I wouldn't call him a world beater yet, but at the same time he has a fair chance, whether a 10/1 chance is another thing.
 
jack1092 said:
Black Op is no better opposition in my book than Laurina. He look decent at Stratford. Champ has G1 form over 2m4 so there shouldn't be any excuses tomorrow regardless. Especially with the price he is. I would fully expect him to win tomorrow. With his 2 years spent over hurdles any slight setbacks to his form would worry me.
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Completely agree Jack... good test tomorrow but I’ll be looking for Champ to stamp his authority on this market... only a win and a good win at that will do IMO.
 
ComplyOrDie said:
Cracking match up, but would have to agree that it's no better race than the one Minella Indo run in on debut.

I'd expect Champ to win with a run over fences under his belt, though it won't be easy against BO, I think his class gets him through tbh. Wouldn't mind him losing, he might drift a little (unlikely I know)!

As for Minella Indo, I'm 100% behind what has been said by a few on here, that his season is slow to get under way, and he'll be much a better horse as the season progresses with the Spring festivals in mind, for that I wouldn't call him a world beater yet, but at the same time he has a fair chance, whether a 10/1 chance is another thing.
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That is unbelievable bias believing that this is no better race than the beginners chase minella indo ran in.
 
Scooby91 said:
That is unbelievable bias believing that this is no better race than the beginners chase minella indo ran in.
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You say bias, I say opinion.

You know I'm on Champ's side as much as Minella Indo's, have both in the book, so there should be and is no bias on my part. As Jack said, Black Op as opposition is not any different to having Laurina as opposition, in fact, some, who rate Laurina, like myself, would have it as worse opposition.

I also said, as per last seasons threads, that Champ should be over 3 miles, but Nicky knew best :triumphant: So for me he, like Minella Indo, may struggle over a trip shorter than they would be at their best, that said I think Champ is the quicker of the two.
 
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Scooby91 said:
In that case.
I assume your looking forward to school boy hours, monkshood and small farm for the rest of the season.
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SBH's is rated 135, he's no star but not a mug either. He'd probably be 138-140 if he was to run in England in a handicap.

I suppose many would look at your initial view on Indo as quite biased too- you are taking all the negatives + ignoring trainer comment, trip and the fact he was no star to begin with over hurdles last year before improving lumps....

I don't even fancy Indo for this and i still thought it was worth calling you out on the clear bias lol.
 
Scooby91 said:
In that case.
I assume your looking forward to school boy hours, monkshood and small farm for the rest of the season.
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Believe it or not School Boy Hours was in my tracker when he was a novice hurdler :highly_amused:

But seriously, it's all comparative to distance for me, SBH PU against Minella Indo over 3m, Small Farm finished 127 lengths behind My Sister Sarah over 3m, and Monkshood's 3m form is also very shocking.

The thing you don't seem to be getting is that MI will be better over 3m, and them horses you quoted are likely at their peak trip when they were behind Minella Indo in the race over 2m 4f.

I can quite clearly see this, and so can others, I accept you think Champ is going to be a worldy novice chaser, and you've backed that, but surprised you can't see what others are trying to say.
 
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jack1092 said:
SBH's is rated 135, he's no star but not a mug either. He'd probably be 138-140 if he was to run in England in a handicap.

I suppose many would look at your initial view on Indo as quite biased too- you are taking all the negatives + ignoring trainer comment, trip and the fact he was no star to begin with over hurdles last year before improving lumps....

I don't even fancy Indo for this and i still thought it was worth calling you out on the clear bias lol.
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School boy hours 138-140
I'd like to be your bookmaker.

Theres bias and theres realism of a horse at 7/1< for the RSA that has just got easily beaten. And it's pure pure expectation that he will improve enough to vindicate that price.


Where as cod saying this no better race than minella Indos is plain bias. And factually incorrect When you look at both fields.
 
Scooby91 said:
Where as cod saying this no better race than minella Indos is plain bias. And factually incorrect When you look at both fields.
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Actually Jack said this, and I was agreeing with him :devilish:
 
ComplyOrDie said:
Believe it or not School Boy Hours was in my tracker when he was a novice hurdler :highly_amused:

But seriously, it's all comparative to distance for me, SBH PU against Minella Indo over 3m, Small Farm finished 127 lengths behind My Sister Sarah over 3m, and Monkshood's 3m form is also very shocking.

The thing you don't seem to be getting is that MI will be better over 3m, and them horses you quoted are likely at their peak trip when they were behind Minella Indo in the race over 2m 4f.

I can quite clearly see this, and so can others, I accept you think Champ is going to be a worldy novice chaser, and you've backed that, but surprised you can't see what others are trying to say.
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What was wrong with 2m4 on heavy ground?
Is it really that unsuitable to a point he'd show absolutely nowhere the level he can?
Which is what his price indicates.
 
ComplyOrDie said:
Actually Jack said this, and I was agreeing with him :devilish:
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He said laurina is as good as opposition as black op. I couldn't categorically disagree.

The RACE being just as good. I'd find laughable
 
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