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Ballymore Novice Hurdle 2020

Not sure if this should be in Supreme thread. Great field of 10 left in the Royal Bond. Hope most of them are declared. Interesting to me that Midnight Run still there.
 
Can't Catch Me said:
Whilst Dlauro clearly hasn't any form of note in the book, I wouldn't be giving up on him just yet. That was too bad to be true.

I will certainly be keeping my eyes on him... could well be a Martin Pipe candidate.
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I agree with this. Way to early to conclude that Dlauro is over hyped. Joseph has a lot of horses in his yard and he will know whom are his best horses. Surely they train their horses against one another to determine the best horses in the yard. Joseph clearly has more in his yard that trees to run past. Dlauro has been highly rated and that performance was too bad to be true. I for one will stay close to his performances.
 
Cheltenham Novice Chase said:
I agree with this. Way to early to conclude that Dlauro is over hyped. Joseph has a lot of horses in his yard and he will know whom are his best horses. Surely they train their horses against one another to determine the best horses in the yard. Joseph clearly has more in his yard that trees to run past. Dlauro has been highly rated and that performance was too bad to be true. I for one will stay close to his performances.
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When has he been highly rated? Apart from him having a big price tag the rest is assumption, he's also had injury after injury.
 
Scooby91 said:
When has he been highly rated? Apart from him having a big price tag the rest is assumption, he's also had injury after injury.
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By rated I don’t mean a handicapper’s rating, I’m simply referring to the comments attributed to Dlauro in Joseph’s Stable Tour i.e. “He is a very exciting horse”. That’s not a comment you make about a average horse. He could have said that about any horse but he chose to say it about Dlauro. As to his performance in the race, he was travelling nicely throughout the race and then found nothing. I suspect something will come to light. I would have confidence in Joseph knowing who his strongest horses are.
 
From the post race reports:

"Joseph Patrick O'Brien, trainer of Dlauro (FR), reported to the Clerk of Scales that his charge burst a blood vessel."

"The Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board Veterinary Officer examined Dlauro (FR), trained by Joseph Patrick O'Brien, at the request of the Stewards and reported the animal to be blowing hard post race."
 
Can't Catch Me said:
Im not sure anyone is 'having it off' tbh Sean. There are so many horses like this in training these days.... horses that are sold for ridiculous sums havintg won egg and spoon races easily. The simple truth is nobody (buyer or seller) really know how good they are at that time... its complete guesswork!
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Red Jack..... ?
 
Salubrious Chin said:
From the post race reports:

"Joseph Patrick O'Brien, trainer of Dlauro (FR), reported to the Clerk of Scales that his charge burst a blood vessel."

"The Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board Veterinary Officer examined Dlauro (FR), trained by Joseph Patrick O'Brien, at the request of the Stewards and reported the animal to be blowing hard post race."
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:encouragement:

Not going to cash out for a loss yet.... not ideal though :highly_amused:
 
Update from Gordon in RP ahead of the Royal Bond:

"We've got a great bunch of novice hurdlers this year. I suppose Abacadabras is a speedy horse whereas with Envoi Allen, you could see him stepping up as the year goes on. He's a big galloping, staying horse. They're two exciting horses and someone has to get beaten."

A bit more hope for those of us with a pile of EA-Ballymore slips...
 
Parachute Paddy said:
Update from Gordon in RP ahead of the Royal Bond:

"We've got a great bunch of novice hurdlers this year. I suppose Abacadabras is a speedy horse whereas with Envoi Allen, you could see him stepping up as the year goes on. He's a big galloping, staying horse. They're two exciting horses and someone has to get beaten."

A bit more hope for those of us with a pile of EA-Ballymore slips...
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More than hope. Iv never thought for a second he'll go for the supreme, it's all an assumption on the fact that he's ran over and has enough pace for 2 miles
 
Parachute Paddy said:
Update from Gordon in RP ahead of the Royal Bond:

"We've got a great bunch of novice hurdlers this year. I suppose Abacadabras is a speedy horse whereas with Envoi Allen, you could see him stepping up as the year goes on. He's a big galloping, staying horse. They're two exciting horses and someone has to get beaten."

A bit more hope for those of us with a pile of EA-Ballymore slips...
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But, as I've been saying, if he beats these 'speedy' types then I think we may be chucking away our Ballymore slips. I'm also hoping he goes the longer race as stand to win a lot more if he does but I just can't see it happening if he wins Royal Bond comfortably.
 
Samcro smashed the top Irish Supreme horses in the Deloitte and still went 2m4

It’s his best trip and if you were Elliott wouldn’t you fancy having your banker in the 1st race of the 2nd day in case day 1 doesn’t go to plan
 
Scooby91 said:
More than hope. Iv never thought for a second he'll go for the supreme, it's all an assumption on the fact that he's ran over and has enough pace for 2 miles
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I'd say it's a good trait to have.
'Assuming things based on facts':highly_amused:
But I get what you mean (i think).
You shouldn't read too much into talk of speed and stamina, and horses entries and runs at different trips. Especially between the 2 mile and 2mile and a half, as for the better ones it don't matter too much. The average speeds of the Supreme and Ballymore don't differ much at all. Although the ground and perceived strength of the opposition (weak or strong)would sway many trainers.

But Lobos has a point, if you keep winning at 2 miles against the speedier types then you're at least gonna think about it.
 
Hurricane fly said:
Samcro smashed the top Irish Supreme horses in the Deloitte and still went 2m4

It’s his best trip and if you were Elliott wouldn’t you fancy having your banker in the 1st race of the 2nd day in case day 1 doesn’t go to plan
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I'm not having that fly.

Samcro may well have won the supreme as well.

And you should have told 'the team' what his best trip was, as they took a season off, messing about at 2 miles.
So they're the same 'team' you're expecting to get Envoi Allens trip right.

If he shows he's good enough, he'd likely be able to win either race.
And if you asked him, I'm sure he'd rather have his banker in the first race on the first day (unless he's a wuss)
 
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Hurricane fly said:
Samcro smashed the top Irish Supreme horses in the Deloitte and still went 2m4

It’s his best trip and if you were Elliott wouldn’t you fancy having your banker in the 1st race of the 2nd day in case day 1 doesn’t go to plan
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It's his best trip that he's never raced over. Work that one out !
 
Elliot still has to wait and see what comes from other yards. He won't be scared of anyone, but i'm sure he'll put them in the races he thinks they have the best chances of winning. Early days to be talking about best trips.
 
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Im surprised that theres so much disagreement on this, it looks glaringly obvious that Envoi Allen is a Ballymore horse and he will go here if all goes well with his prep. You just need to watch the way he races to see that hes going to be harder to beat over 2m 4f rather than 2m. Im on any race so not going to cry if he goes Supreme but the way he races screams Ballymore to me.
 
billymag said:
Im surprised that theres so much disagreement on this, it looks glaringly obvious that Envoi Allen is a Ballymore horse and he will go here if all goes well with his prep. You just need to watch the way he races to see that hes going to be harder to beat over 2m 4f rather than 2m. Im on any race so not going to cry if he goes Supreme but the way he races screams Ballymore to me.
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I'd think so too.
But his hurdling looked very quick on debut, and surprised me.
If he continues to jump them that quick, it'll be more advantageous over 2 in the supreme, especially if they get soft ground.
We'll see Sunday how he looks in comparison.
 
billymag said:
Im surprised that theres so much disagreement on this, it looks glaringly obvious that Envoi Allen is a Ballymore horse and he will go here if all goes well with his prep. You just need to watch the way he races to see that hes going to be harder to beat over 2m 4f rather than 2m. Im on any race so not going to cry if he goes Supreme but the way he races screams Ballymore to me.
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Having watched him once over 2m hurdles, how have you devised that he'd be harder to beat over 2m4?
 
jack1092 said:
Having watched him once over 2m hurdles, how have you devised that he'd be harder to beat over 2m4?
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There are other races apart from hurdle races to watch which can provide clues to the puzzle, sometimes big clues.

The grade 2 bumper at xams "Tracked leaders on outer in 3rd, on terms 4f out and soon led narrowly, ridden over 2f out, kept on well under strong pressure final furlong"

The Champion Bumper "Strong; lengthy; scope; will make a jumper; looked well; held up, headway 5f out, led over 3f out, ridden over 1f out, strongly pressed inside final furlong, ran on gamely and found extra near finish"

You can interpret these things how you like, he left me with the visual impression that he will be harder to beat over 2m 4f than 2m at this years festival. The RP in running comments do little to change my mind. If people want to back him for the Supreme then I wish them luck.
 
Very very early days but I’d say it’s the first race that someone will prove they are worthy of their drop in price post race. Nothing anyone has done to date warrants the prices but that’s the same across every race unfortunately.

If EA bolts up I think Elliott would be silly to dismiss the supreme at this stage and will definitely be on his mind. No decision will be made post race that’s for sure. I still think he will go ballymore regardless of the race outcome, yes you need a degree of stamina to win a supreme but Elliott’s comments alone suggest he sees EA’s best trip will be further than 2m.
 
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