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2022 Gold Cup

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charlie said:
It obviously wasn't a deep race.

BDM ran terribly. Maybe ground, maybe at 10 he's just not as good.
IA fell before getting involved.
RP wants a bog and trainer said as much.
WP just doesn't look very good, perpetual dissapointer
The 3rd and 4th wouldn't stand a hope in hell in a GC.

So yeh, for all APT oozed class, it wasn't a remotely deep race.
Click to expand...

This sums it up perfectly for me. I was gutted Imperial Aura fell when coming into the race as really wanted to see if he actually had the minerals to serve it up to APT or not. APT cleaned up against decent opposition who weren’t at their optimum/with their ideal conditions.

The most impressive thing for me was how he travelled and jumped throughout & that was with his first run of the season which he usually needs. I was all over him last year & haven’t touched him this year as others have stated he’s a returning loser… today might have changed my mind on it. At 4/1 however I won’t be piling in (rather see how it pans out) & I’ll still ride the Imperial Aura & Eklat tickets I’ve got.
 
Now apparent that the 2nd and 3rd both received bad cuts so perhaps APT did have it all his own way.
 
An interesting , entry this week is Pencilfullloflead. Second beaten 1/2l by Colreevy giving 7lb for mares allowance. Colreevy finished her season beating Monkfish by 8l. Previously Pencil beat
Latest Exhibition by 7l , prior to LE being beaten 4l by Monkfish. He then equalled the performance of Eklat De Rire in finishing 3rd to that horse at Naas.

He needs to improve 20lb on ratings if Album Boum Photo turns up on Thursday but is worthy of an ew interest for the GC @ 66/1
 
If you aren’t with APT no point backing at this price, wait til
after the KG and reassess
 
Saxon Warrior said:
He jumped and travelled really well.

Nothing to mark down from that performance.

Its less about the opposition and more about what APT did - in my assessment.
Click to expand...

Totally agree

Also, was only his third race at 3m….so improvement was always likely
 
All the talk pre race from various pundits was APTs first time out record which, to yesterday, wasn’t great. Tends to improve 7lbs plus for his first outing.

I think Henry had him pretty fit yesterday, this had been a long term plan after all. But I have no doubt that like most of Henry’s he’ll improve for the run.

He was up against some decent yardsticks, some of which undoubtedly weren’t at their best and underperformed. But APT has beaten them by over 20l hard on the steel showing, to my eye at least, improved jumping.

For me he’s the rightful favourite. He’s 7 going on 8, he wasn’t far off last year and yesterday he showed no ill effects from a tough race. Indeed I’d argue he showed he’s better for it. As pointed out above he’s unexposed over 3m and he’s just won over 3m 1f.

I’d give him an A Plus yesterday. Ahem.
 
Whilst you can pick holes in the opposition he faced yesterday (and personally I think hindsight and the way he demolished the field has led to a slightly exaggerated opinion on how bad the race was) How much better is the Gold Cup going to be?

Minella Indo - 1 apiece - but Indo holds the edge with GC win
Al Boum Photo - beaten once
Delta Work - beaten once (UR)
Lostintranslation - beaten once (PU)
Champ - beaten once (PU)

Of the unknowns

Envoi - (level of uncertainty to whether he will run)
Galvin
Chantry House
Allaho - (Ryanair all day long for me)
Asterion Forlonge ?
Eklat de Rire

Of lasts years Gold Cup field.

A Plus Tard will be 8
Minella Indo will be 9
Royal Pagielle will be 8
The rest will be 10years plus

He’ll be the same age as the likes of Galvin, Chantry House, eklat de Rire, Asterion Forlonge, Envoi who (could) come into the race with their first shot.

No doubt the race will have one or two I haven’t mentioned

but it’s not like he’s produced that performance yesterday and A still needs prove himself in a Gold Cup or B has formidable opposition waiting come March
 
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charlie said:
It obviously wasn't a deep race.

BDM ran terribly. Maybe ground, maybe at 10 he's just not as good.
IA fell before getting involved.
RP wants a bog and trainer said as much.
WP just doesn't look very good, perpetual dissapointer
The 3rd and 4th wouldn't stand a hope in hell in a GC.

So yeh, for all APT oozed class, it wasn't a remotely deep race.
Click to expand...

It was still a reasonably deep race though. At the start. In the context of a betfair chase.

Then it started and fell apart a bit. Although the winner looked like the winner from a long way out.
Your comments are simply a post race summary.

Might be terminology that's getting confused as it may be fairer to say the form is flattering a little cos of the reasons you've mentioned.
But it was an above average renewal for sure.
 
One thing to say about apt is that he's the only horse on the day who was still accelerating between 2 out and the last. It was like watching two different races if you were there, in a way I suspect the TV wouldn't pick up. He was very, very good.

Also worth noting Bravemansgame did not give the same visual impression (just staying on at the same pace to my eye).
 
Should APT really be shorter in the betting than Minella Indo?

Surely not.......
 
jono said:
Whilst you can pick holes in the opposition he faced yesterday (and personally I think hindsight and the way he demolished the field has led to a slightly exaggerated opinion on how bad the race was) How much better is the Gold Cup going to be?

Minella Indo - 1 apiece - but Indo holds the edge with GC win
Al Boum Photo - beaten once
Delta Work - beaten once (UR)
Lostintranslation - beaten once (PU)
Champ - beaten once (PU)

Of the unknowns

Envoi - (level of uncertainty to whether he will run)
Galvin
Chantry House
Allaho - (Ryanair all day long for me)
Asterion Forlonge ?
Eklat de Rire

Of lasts years Gold Cup field.

A Plus Tard will be 8
Royal Pagielle will be 8
The rest will be 10years plus

He’ll be the same age as the likes of Galvin, Chantry House, eklat de Rire, Asterion Forlonge, Envoi who (could) come into the race with their first shot.

No doubt the race will have one or two I haven’t mentioned

but it’s not like he’s produced that performance yesterday and A still needs prove himself in a Gold Cup or B has formidable opposition waiting come March
Click to expand...

The hindsight comment :applause:
The ones in Bold = No fucking chance anyway.
So it looks like the top 3 from last year vs the new boys.
It kind of, is always the case though.
 
OscarWhisky said:
All the talk pre race from various pundits was APTs first time out record which, to yesterday, wasn’t great. Tends to improve 7lbs plus for his first outing.

I think Henry had him pretty fit yesterday, this had been a long term plan after all. But I have no doubt that like most of Henry’s he’ll improve for the run.

He was up against some decent yardsticks, some of which undoubtedly weren’t at their best and underperformed. But APT has beaten them by over 20l hard on the steel showing, to my eye at least, improved jumping.

For me he’s the rightful favourite. He’s 7 going on 8, he wasn’t far off last year and yesterday he showed no ill effects from a tough race. Indeed I’d argue he showed he’s better for it. As pointed out above he’s unexposed over 3m and he’s just won over 3m 1f.

I’d give him an A Plus yesterday. Ahem.
Click to expand...

Improved jumping was my main take from APT yesterday. He almost won the GC last year and looks to have improved again which imo, makes him a very solid favourite.
 
Faugheen_Machine said:
Should APT really be shorter in the betting than Minella Indo?

Surely not.......
Click to expand...

I think it's potentially a good opportunity for the ones that would back Minella Indo over A Plus Tard.
IMO Minella Indo don't win a King George
& A Plus Tard will likely win the Savilles.
The odds then should drift apart a little more and NRNB kicks in.

To be fair.
I would only be doing this at the prices and do not have a strong opinion that one is better than the other.
I'd still say that it's 60%+ that a new kid wins, but this year these 2 in particular are aged in the right bracket to repeat their performances.
 
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Quevega said:
I think it's potentially a good opportunity for the ones that would back Minella Indo over A Plus Tard.
IMO Minella Indo don't win a King George
& A Plus Tard will likely win the Savilles.
The odds then should drift apart a little more and NRNB kicks in.

To be fair.
I would only be doing this at the prices and do not have a strong opinion that one is better than the other.
I'd still say that it's 60%+ that a new kid wins, but this year these 2 in particular are aged in the right bracket to repeat their performances.
Click to expand...

I agree. Minella Indo is all about stamina and is no KG horse. They’re definitely the two to beat. I suspect had APT got closer to MI in last year’s GC, that MI would have kept finding more. He has a great fighting spirit. I do agree with people’s comments that, based on yesterday’s performance, APT’s jumping seems to have improved which will make the GC one hell of a race.
 
A Plus Tard going shorter than Minella Indo shouldn't really be the trigger to back Minella Indo now should it? The 6/1 hasn't changed for him, and if anything his task got harder (as APT showed to still be in what we can assume is the sme level of ability) or at very least, his task stayed the same?

You could argue that relative to A Plus Tard, that Minella Indo today is a now a better bet than he was, but backing Minella Indo just because another horse got shorter isn't a great plan.

Of course, on the other hand, it depends on whether people feel 6/1 was fair anyway. I know if it was the day of the race and Minella Indo was 6/1 I'd see it as an each way solid bet, it just doesn't (and in my opinion shouldn't) have people wanting to take that today.



Part of this was to convince myself not to back Minella Indo this morning :glee:
 
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Quevega said:
It was still a reasonably deep race though. At the start. In the context of a betfair chase.

Then it started and fell apart a bit. Although the winner looked like the winner from a long way out.
Your comments are simply a post race summary.

Might be terminology that's getting confused as it may be fairer to say the form is flattering a little cos of the reasons you've mentioned.
But it was an above average renewal for sure.
Click to expand...

It wasn't even reasonably deep IMO, nor was it an above average renewal. We normally see small-ish fields in the Betfair Chase, but we regularly see 170+ chasers clash. Last year 171 v 171 v 169, year before 170, 169, 161, year before 176, 172, 165, 165 etc. Yesterday, we had a 170+ horse competing against two 150's horses making up numbers, Royale Pagaille who was never going to run to any sort of 160+ level on that ground, what looks like a Grade 2 chaser in Imperial Aura, and two mid-160's 10 year-olds (one of which I admittedly liked). We knew pre-race it wasn't deep and post race confirmed it. My OP may have been more of a summary, but if that constitutes deep then god help the state of British racing. Anyone know where I can get 27-1 Prestbury Cup odds? :devilish:

As I said, take nothing away from APT, he was awesome and when the performance looks that good, it seldom matters what dross he left in behind.
 
OscarWhisky said:
All the talk pre race from various pundits was APTs first time out record which, to yesterday, wasn’t great. Tends to improve 7lbs plus for his first outing.

I think Henry had him pretty fit yesterday, this had been a long term plan after all. But I have no doubt that like most of Henry’s he’ll improve for the run.

He was up against some decent yardsticks, some of which undoubtedly weren’t at their best and underperformed. But APT has beaten them by over 20l hard on the steel showing, to my eye at least, improved jumping.

For me he’s the rightful favourite. He’s 7 going on 8, he wasn’t far off last year and yesterday he showed no ill effects from a tough race. Indeed I’d argue he showed he’s better for it. As pointed out above he’s unexposed over 3m and he’s just won over 3m 1f.

I’d give him an A Plus yesterday. Ahem.
Click to expand...

I agree with your summary OscarWhiskey , On the opening show , they all talked about A.P.T. needing the 1st run .
Sure , the ground was probably not deep enough for R.P. and B.D.M . , but hard not to be impressed with A.P.T. ,
and rightfully Fav for the Gold Cup now.. in.my.opinion..
 
charlie said:
It wasn't even reasonably deep IMO, nor was it an above average renewal. We normally see small-ish fields in the Betfair Chase, but we regularly see 170+ chasers clash. Last year 171 v 171 v 169, year before 170, 169, 161, year before 176, 172, 165, 165 etc. Yesterday, we had a 170+ horse competing against two 150's horses making up numbers, Royale Pagaille who was never going to run to any sort of 160+ level on that ground, what looks like a Grade 2 chaser in Imperial Aura, and two mid-160's 10 year-olds (one of which I admittedly liked). We knew pre-race it wasn't deep and post race confirmed it. My OP may have been more of a summary, but if that constitutes deep then god help the state of British racing. Anyone know where I can get 27-1 Prestbury Cup odds? :devilish:

As I said, take nothing away from APT, he was awesome and when the performance looks that good, it seldom matters what dross he left in behind.
Click to expand...

Looks like a list of numbers to me.
You say regularly then list 3 (including one renewal that doesn't count)
Not going to go on about it.
Cos it doesn't really matter. :onthego:

Agree on the state of UK racing though as who missed the race ?
Champ
Native river
Next Destination.
All would have been beaten in similar fashion IMO.
And won't be winning a Gold Cup.
 
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