Queen Mother Champion Chase 2021

[Bigfish]

PTKO wins vs. Al Dancer and Fakir Doudaries by a couple of lengths doesnt put her within 10L of Altior or CPS. Not even on BHB ratings.

[Spectre]

At their best Bigfish. Altior is regressing and now has an entry over 2m5f. Chacun has more to prove than anything, not least round Cheltenham. And now we have a form line that suggests the current Champion Chaser might have his hands full too.

Surely those that have been against her need to reassess?

[Dessie the great]

Will Nicky take on PTKO with Altior at Kempton at Christmas if it turns up soft. Will take a fair amount out of him to beat her too. She doesn't know when she is beat. Only two or three others might turn up

[Bigfish]

Okay PTKO gets beat 7L .

[FinalFurlong91]

Did rouge vif run his race either time he's run against her though?

Id say no myself

Hes a very up and down performer

Id be looking at fakir getting thumped by notebook twice to see the real strength of that arkle myselk

[Spectre]

Okay PTKO gets beat 7L .

What are you basing that on Bigfish?

[Quevega]

We’ve got a pretty firm line on Rouge Vif with her. She’s beaten him easily twice. Rouge Vif running in open company against Politologue when the going would have suited Politologue is a pretty obvious form line to look at. Why would you be surprised, or dismissive Lobos?

I agree Spectre (aside from the age old 'we'll never really know' question of did they run their race on any given day)

If today is Rouge Vif's best efforts on soft ground (and I accept that some believe he's 10-20 lengths better on better ground), then one out of the 2 runs he had against the mare on soft ground is likely to have been of a similar level. I think it's fair to assume that.

If that's the case then it does put the mare right up there with the 170 boys.

The other unknown of course, is how much he and she has improved since last season.

[Quevega]

Did rouge vif run his race either time he's run against her though?

Id say no myself

Hes a very up and down performer

Id be looking at fakir getting thumped by notebook twice to see the real strength of that arkle myselk

It's very difficult to know if they've run to their best on any given day.

But if he keeps running his best race on good ground against low level handicappers then he ain't going to win a champion chase.

The notebook vs fakir form line only really seems to show Notebook didn't run his race in the arkle. IMO

[FinalFurlong91]

It's very difficult to know if they've run to their best on any given day.

But if he keeps running his best race on good ground against low level handicappers then he ain't going to win a champion chase.

The notebook vs fakir form line only really seems to show Notebook didn't run his race in the arkle. IMO

Thats exactly what It showed i agree

If he had it suggests he is miles better than fakir and wouldve won

And i agree rouge vif has little to no chance in a champion chase

But if altior and chacun miss the race I guess anything could win on its day

[Dessie the great]

Notebook doesnt handle Cheltenham, its as simple as that.

Fakir was only half fit in Naas, the O Brien team thought he would have no trouble turning form around with Notebook in March and backed him accordingly. The green and gold silks rarely leave a gamble behind but they hadny factored in the mare.

Its fair to assume PTKO is 10-20ls a better horse than Rouge Vif which puts her bang there with the top two milers in my view.

[FinalFurlong91]

I cant have that at all tbh

No way is she a 170+ performer imo

We have absolutely no evidence that shows that, shes beaten al dancer, fakir and duc de genievres

But its a game of opinions I suppose

[Joeski29]

I thought Hendersons comments about the ground being heavy today in his interview with Lydia seemed a bit bizarre, had a look at the times for the last 4 and Politologue was 1 second quicker then Defi last year, 5 seconds quicker than Altior the year before and 4 seconds slower than when Politologue won it in 2017.

Ground noted as soft last year and the year before, good to soft in 2017.

[Lobos]

Maybe Altior just wasn't ready and the ground thing was just a smokescreen. He did look way behind in his gallop at Newbury.

[Joeski29]

Henderson had a poor day today as well, didn't watch much of the racing but saw he had a 2/11 shot beat amongst others

[Saxon Warrior]

I thought Hendersons comments about the ground being heavy today in his interview with Lydia seemed a bit bizarre, had a look at the times for the last 4 and Politologue was 1 second quicker then Defi last year, 5 seconds quicker than Altior the year before and 4 seconds slower than when Politologue won it in 2017.

Ground noted as soft last year and the year before, good to soft in 2017.

How ignorant the likes of Hendo are to think it’s solely the horse that he needs to think about.

Yes, it’s his main priority, but to sit on his ass all week and say nothing about Altior’s run being ground-dependent whilst punters poured their cash on to the horse, is unforgivable.

He should know where prize-money comes from, punters cash funds the levy (not bookmakers, they only have our lost money), the genpops cash funds the firms of race sponsors and corporate hospitality at racecourses, and also pays for the racecourse gate receipts (when we are allowed in).

He needs to get with the programme in the 21st century, and keep people informed if he has a plan to withdraw if the ground is worse than soft.

Then.............to withdraw the horse when the ground wasn’t bad, but insist when interviewed, that it was bad ........
put the sickly cherry on a very icky sicky cake that he served the public in the last 24 hours.