• HELP US - Become a Patron - Fat Jockey is a horse racing community focused on all the big races in the UK and Ireland. We don't charge users but if you have found the site useful then any support towards the running costs is appreciated ... a small donation each month would be a huge contribution. Become a Patron!

RSA Chase 2020

He's not one I'm against, I just can't back him with cash at this stage, I will find plenty of free bets shortly though to put down on him.

I also need to add more to Minella Indo using free bets.
 
FaugheenTheMachine said:
Wonder if after last year they’d aim both Champ and Dickie Diver at the RSA rather than one going 4 miler? JP isn’t afraid to let his best horses take each other on
Click to expand...

On everything they've done, champs alot better.
I understand dickie diver is a price, but hows he beating champ.. I really cant see it myself.

Time will tell.
 
Bright Forecast has to have a nice chance of reversing form with Champ.

4 starts vs Champs 9....Would imagine Bright Forecast has plenty of improvement
 
Think the likelihood is slim, but if he runs really well in his first two Novices, and other things fall into place, like JP's other novices all looking good, Dickie Diver, Rathhill, Birchdale, and any others he has over in Ireland with Joseph and other yards.

And in Nicky's yard - Santini and Altior don't look strong candidates for whatever reason.

Then with his age Champ could be tried in open company in January or Feb and a possible Gold cup run.

You'd think JP would like a Gold cup challenger or two.
Anibale Fly has surely had his chances.
Defi de Seuill is probably the most talented of his second season chasers but they don't appear to have considered the GC at all with him (a mistake to my eye)
And Darasso and OK Corral probably not good enough and too old respectively.

Probably forgotten one or two but he hasn't got a stand out Gold Cup horse at present, so it will only take one of the team to show enough to make them at least think outside the box a little.

I'd definitely have a nibble on betfair for champ if someone added it.
might still have a go at 50's on B365 during his first run over fences if all well, they might not freeze that market.
 
jack1092 said:
Bright Forecast has to have a nice chance of reversing form with Champ.

4 starts vs Champs 9....Would imagine Bright Forecast has plenty of improvement
Click to expand...

It's all possible.
Personally expect champ to improve a bundle for a fence and the trip. therefore making him very much the one to beat. I see him clear of the pack myself.


ofcourse i can be wrong.
 
FaugheenTheMachine said:
Wonder if after last year they’d aim both Champ and Dickie Diver at the RSA rather than one going 4 miler? JP isn’t afraid to let his best horses take each other on
Click to expand...

And on top of that if they send Chantry House chasing wheres that going.Won its bumper over 2 m and ran in 2 PTP's over 3m winning one of them?
 
Scooby91 said:
On everything they've done, champs alot better.
I understand dickie diver is a price, but hows he beating champ.. I really cant see it myself.

Time will tell.
Click to expand...

There is a gulf in experience between Champ and Dickie Diver, not just age but more importantly number of runs.

Champ and Minella Indo bring the best hurdle form for sure and being the same price is fair. The wonderful part about ante post betting is trying to guess who will progress more for fences, trip and with experience. Minella Indo was a very inexperienced winner of the AB so he could also have a high ceiling with regards to his future.
 
I was against Champ last year and going to be the same this. Think 10/1 is a terrible price personally as I don't feel his form has any real top class substance to it.... not to justify that price anyway. Seems odd that he is the same price as a horse like Envoi Allen when he couldn't even win at the Festival last time around.

Only play in the race so far for me is Carefully Selected at 33/1. Considering he'd only had one run in an egg and spoon race prior to Punch, I thought he did very well to get so close to Minella Indo and Allaho and he looked a lovely staying chase prospect. He looks a very fair price in relation to the other two to my eyes.
 
I'm not convinced that Champ is a stayer that needs 3m. Champ was outstayed in the Ballymore and outstayed the previous season against Vinndication when he should have put the race to bed. If the evidence is because he won at Aintree over 3m, watch the race back and see how steady a pace it was - the majority were in a line 2 out. Plus 3m at Cheltenham is a much stiffer test. He was more forward than the rest last season due to being a second season novice which helped him to be one of the better novices but the fact is he still didn't win his biggest race last season, and I strongly suspect there will be some that will improve past him this season.
 
SamuelP said:
I'm not convinced that Champ is a stayer that needs 3m. Champ was outstayed in the Ballymore and outstayed the previous season against Vinndication when he should have put the race to bed. If the evidence is because he won at Aintree over 3m, watch the race back and see how steady a pace it was - the majority were in a line 2 out. Plus 3m at Cheltenham is a much stiffer test. He was more forward than the rest last season due to being a second season novice which helped him to be one of the better novices but the fact is he still didn't win his biggest race last season, and I strongly suspect there will be some that will improve past him this season.
Click to expand...

Spot on IMO.
 
SamuelP said:
I'm not convinced that Champ is a stayer that needs 3m. Champ was outstayed in the Ballymore and outstayed the previous season against Vinndication when he should have put the race to bed. If the evidence is because he won at Aintree over 3m, watch the race back and see how steady a pace it was - the majority were in a line 2 out. Plus 3m at Cheltenham is a much stiffer test. He was more forward than the rest last season due to being a second season novice which helped him to be one of the better novices but the fact is he still didn't win his biggest race last season, and I strongly suspect there will be some that will improve past him this season.
Click to expand...


I'd be very confident Hes going to improve a bundle himself over fences. Look at the shear size and scope of him.
To me, His experience is only to his advantage, as is his cruising speed tactically.

You've definitely not seen the best of champ yet. And i'll let him do his talking on the track.
 
Scooby91 said:
I'd be very confident Hes going to improve a bundle himself over fences. Look at the shear size and scope of him.
To me, His experience is only to his advantage, as is his cruising speed tactically.

You've definitely not seen the best of champ yet. And i'll let him do his talking on the track.
Click to expand...

Yeah we don't know how much any will improve, and Champ is a very good horse. I just personally feel that 3m may not be his best trip, and that others who weren't as forward as Champ could improve more. Plus, more importantly, his price is too short
 
SamuelP said:
I'm not convinced that Champ is a stayer that needs 3m. Champ was outstayed in the Ballymore and outstayed the previous season against Vinndication when he should have put the race to bed. If the evidence is because he won at Aintree over 3m, watch the race back and see how steady a pace it was - the majority were in a line 2 out. Plus 3m at Cheltenham is a much stiffer test. He was more forward than the rest last season due to being a second season novice which helped him to be one of the better novices but the fact is he still didn't win his biggest race last season, and I strongly suspect there will be some that will improve past him this season.
Click to expand...

Can’t buy into the notion that Champ go outstayed in either race. Greenness cost him in the Vindicaction race and for me City Island just showed a bit more toe to the line last year. Plenty true staying typed have got beaten in the Ballymore over the years, Denman being the obvious example.
 
Champ Looks like a born chaser to me and anything he did over hurdles was a bonus.
 
Champ could be a complete weapon over fences and take all the beating in the RSA, but as with any short priced favorite this early, people are going to pick holes. I think he'll definitely improve for a fence, but its fair enough to question the level of improvement as a second season novice that may have been more forward than his rivals last season. I think people will be torn with Champ and he'll be a horse that really splits opinion. There will be the non-believers that see a very good horse that's short in the market more because he's owned by JP and named after AP, then you will have those that rightly point out what he's done on the racecourse to counter that and put the 'hype' argument to bed. There's merit to both sides IMO and I am just not sure yet until I see him over fences. As Scooby says, let him do his talking on the track, i'm sure that will answer the debate for us.
 
My main reservation about Champ is that he's actually older than Al Boum Photo and Kemboy and it's taken this long to get him to novice chases.

Granted they all improve at different times and rates but.......
 
archie said:
My main reservation about Champ is that he's actually older than Al Boum Photo and Kemboy and it's taken this long to get him to novice chases.

Granted they all improve at different times and rates but.......
Click to expand...

They would be some of my concerns too. Just comparing Champ to Minella Indo is interesting as they are the same price:

Champ
Will be 8 at the next festival
Has had 7 hurdle runs and 9 career
2nd at the last festival and 1st at Aintree

Minella Indo
Will be 7 at the next festival
Has had 4 runs hurdle runs and 5 career
1st at the last festival and 1st at Punchestown.

I often avoid Aintree and Punchestown form as many horses are over the top by then and some horses have bypassed the festival to target those meetings. The age and ‘miles on the clock’ would favour Minella Indo and you can argue that he’s always been a chaser too.

I’d expect both to be up there with the best but with all the other unknowns, I personally couldn’t touch either at 10/1.
 
The age/maturity factor might be an advantage to Champ this season but you have to accept that he might not go on next season.
 
Champ stays 3 miles!

I'd have to query his age though, but for the use of free bets I probably wouldn't back him, but I will have a few shortly to use so some are going on him!
 
I also think he will get 3m no problem. Plenty of stamina in his breeding.

I just cant see the piece of form that justifies his position in the market as Fav.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom