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RSA Chase 2020

ELEGANTLY TASTED said:
Derlann De Carjac ran well below form, perhaps needs better ground but getting beat by 130 rated Paint The Dream confirms he ran well below form. A bit fortunate to land my ew 3 places on that one.
Midnight Shadow was only 3 lengths down and still in the race when champ fell 2 out. 2 out is a long way from hime and uphill and I wouldnt be certain that Champ would have won had he stayed on his feet. If Champ did end up in the RSA (doubtful imo as hurdling looks the correct call for the horse) then he will be facing much tougher rivals than he met today at the festival.
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Did he bounce again?
 
Seeing how the other horses finished the race there is no doubt Champ would have won by 20 lengths if he had not fallen but he did and I was expecting him to fall at some point. He is a powerful traveller but not a naturally talented jumper. Like Yorkhill, if he can avoid falling or dismounting he will probably win the RSA but with the risk attached to his price he’s poor value at 7/2. I wouldn’t be surprised if he kept it together on the day but he will fall again. I also think he would race better with horses in front of him. With the lack of pace yesterday he didn’t have the choice but he will hopefully get the opportunity to be held up mid pack in the RSA and he can follow other horses instead of being out in front jumping.
 
There is a doubt as to if Champ would have won yesterday. Midnight Warrior was only 3 lengths down and 2 out is a long way from home.
On the two previous times Champ ran up a hill he didnt see his race out and his turn of foot didnt work so to say that race was over and in the bag is fantasy. The relaity is we dont know what would have happened.
Champ certainly hadnt mastered Midnight Shadow at his point of departure.
 
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Champ not quoted on Unibet for this atm?

I’m not scaremongering simply stating a fact , anyone know why as he’s still quoted by all others?
 
The King Pimm said:
Seeing how the other horses finished the race there is no doubt Champ would have won by 20 lengths if he had not fallen but he did and I was expecting him to fall at some point. He is a powerful traveller but not a naturally talented jumper. Like Yorkhill, if he can avoid falling or dismounting he will probably win the RSA but with the risk attached to his price he’s poor value at 7/2. I wouldn’t be surprised if he kept it together on the day but he will fall again. I also think he would race better with horses in front of him. With the lack of pace yesterday he didn’t have the choice but he will hopefully get the opportunity to be held up mid pack in the RSA and he can follow other horses instead of being out in front jumping.
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I'd be reluctant to start calling the number of lengths but yes, it looked like he would have won.
 
charlie said:
I'd be reluctant to start calling the number of lengths but yes, it looked like he would have won.
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I just rewatched the race and most of Champs jumping was decent enough and he was powering ahead before falling. 20 lengths is probably an over estimate but he had all the horses behind treading water and they would have struggled to reign him in. Fortunately the fall didn’t appear too bad so not all is lost.
 
Humble Pie said:
Champ not quoted on Unibet for this atm?

I’m not scaremongering simply stating a fact , anyone know why as he’s still quoted by all others?
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I just had a look and unibet have removed Champ from the JLT and RSA market though still price him up for champ hurdle and stayers hurdle.
 
ELEGANTLY TASTED said:
There is a doubt as to if Champ would have won yesterday. Midnight Warrior was only 3 lengths down and 2 out is a long way from home.
On the two previous times Champ ran up a hill he didnt see his race out and his turn of foot didnt work so to say that race was over and in the bag is fantasy. The relaity is we dont know what would have happened.
Champ certainly hadnt mastered Midnight Shadow at his point of departure.
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Jesus ET lol lol lol lol lol lol.
 
billymag said:
Jesus ET lol lol lol lol lol lol.
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The race was still alive? Champ has NEVER found anything up a hill (chelt and ascot), Midnight Shadow thrives on cheltenhams hill.
Anybody saying that a horse 3 lengths up at the 2nd last had the race in the bag 100% guaranteed does not know what they are talking about.
 
he would of won by about 20 lengths, he got straight up, passed 2 horses and finished quicker than anything up the hill...
 
ELEGANTLY TASTED said:
The horse carrying 9 stone less than the others finished better than the others. Good grief.
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Dont really get your agenda here, you're making out that its a tired fall and he wont get up the hill, which is way off. Its a fair enough about his jumping and this has become a decent betting race. Not going to bother wasting my time here further
 
He doesnt finish up hills on all known evidence. Its factual he found nothing at Cheltenham and nothing at Ascot. A classic flat track bully.

This isnt a conclusion that he had a tired fall yesterday, he fell becuase he isnt a natural at fences. These types fall whether tired or not.
 
Istabraq said:
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Think this needs a bump
 
charlie said:
Think this needs a bump
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So are the rules on this forum you must like the media hyped horses and stars like Altior.
Is it against forum rules to be against these types?

Im lost here. Help me out. All I can see is debate on a horse and what qpuld or wouldnt have happened.

What do you see Charlie?
 
somer1 said:
Thats total bollox ET
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I have looked through the last 5 or so pages to try and find what your message was aimed at Charlie.

I can only find Somers comment that could be took as being offensive but im not a snowflake and wasnt offended in any way by this.
 
ELEGANTLY TASTED said:
He doesnt finish up hills on all known evidence. Its factual he found nothing at Cheltenham and nothing at Ascot. A classic flat track bully.

This isnt a conclusion that he had a tired fall yesterday, he fell becuase he isnt a natural at fences. These types fall whether tired or not.
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This notion that he doesn’t finish his races off up hills...

Ballymore:
- He was half a length down on City Island (1st turning in and 1st past the post) when they turn into the straight. He’s only beaten 2 lengths and is eased in the last 6 strides when beat.
- He was 1 and a half lengths up on Brewinupastorm (ends up 4th, is 3rd turning in) turning into the straight. He beats the horse by 4 lengths and is eased in the last 6 strides when beat.
- He was 3 lengths ahead of Seddon (4th turning in, finishes 8th) turning into the straight. He beats the horse by 25 lengths and is eased in the last 6 strides when beat.

In his only other run with a stiff finish (Ascot):
- He’s a length down on Vindication (1st) turning into the straight. He’s beaten by a neck
- He’s a length down on Just a Sting (3rd) turning into the straight. He beats the horse by 13 lengths
- He’s half a length down on Quarry Leader (4th) turning into the straight. He beats the horse by 21 lengths


So to say that ‘he doesn’t finish up hills on all known evidence’ is twisting the evidence to suit your argument. The fact is he doesn’t relish the hill like Altior does (or Bright Forecast in the Ballymore that Champ is 2nd in) but that he is just as good as other horses are up it - arguably better than most if anything.
 
ET. If you had said the same things about that race to my face you would get the same reply. I think we watched two different races
 
ELEGANTLY TASTED said:
The race was still alive? Champ has NEVER found anything up a hill (chelt and ascot), Midnight Shadow thrives on cheltenhams hill.
Anybody saying that a horse 3 lengths up at the 2nd last had the race in the bag 100% guaranteed does not know what they are talking about.
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Sorry ET honestly thought you were just trying a wind up, Im happy for you to have a different opinion, on this occasion we are not going to agree. I cant really see why you think Champ was going to empty the RP comments:

Yesterday "4 lengths up and going okay when fell 2 out"

Newbury 29th "stayed on well"

Newbury 7th "smooth headway and led last, shaken up and went clear run-in, readily"

Aintree hurdles over 3 miles "led going well 2 out, ridden out run-in"

For completeness this is his defeat in the Ballymore "ridden when challenging before last, no extra towards finish"

He wasnt stopping in the Ballymore just beaten by the better horse on the day.

I just dont see what your seeing with regards a lack of stamina to get home. I get you can crab his jumping, and the price hes going off and if you want you can say he doesnt act at the track (i would disagree), in fact you can say what you like, I would just be interested in how you arrive at the that opinion, I like to challenge my own interpretations its the right thing to do. As i see it you think that the horse cant jump and wont stay 2m 4f at chelt let alone 3 miles?
 
The facts are when Champ runs on a flat track he finds enough to win.

The two times he ran at a track with a steep finish he didnt find enough to win.

Spin it however you like.

I havent said anything about the horse not staying. Its a fact he is unproven over the RSA trip. Thats not an opinion its a fact. It doesnt mean he wont stay jist that he hasnt proven that he will yet.

At no point have I said he wont stay any trip for that matter. I say a hill blunts his finishing speed. As it stands on evidence thats fact.
 
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