Queen Mother Champion Chase 2020

[ComplyOrDie]

A win on his seasonal reappearance over C&D vs QMCC 2nd to Altior in a race the trainer says he might go for because of his natural speed does not have me rushing to conclude he isn't a 2 miler.

Obviously he can win at 2 miles, given the rubbish opposition.

Getting weight from a horse that needs further (Politologue), weight from a horse whose aged 12 with his best years definitely behind him, and weight from an average 2 miler.

Obviously it depends how you weigh up his opposition, if you feel they are good competition then you will see it different from me, I think it was crap race.

He ran twice in novice company over 2m last season and got beat twice. He'll need a trip, I wouldn't waste my money on him for the QMCC. I mean I'm not even convinced he'll go that well at the festival out of novice company anyway myself, and I was a fan of his last season.

 

[Quevega]

DDS is the better horse at 2m4f but surely he can't be the better horse 'overall' as they've not competed at the further distance. Horses won't perform to the same level at every distance. DDS may well stay all the way to the Gold Cup trip but I'd have to doubt he'd finish off the race the same as he does over shorter.

Although the difference in ability is marginal between LIT & DDS.
What you're saying is you can't say say a horse is better than the other unless they have competed over the same trip.
Like Altior vs Elegant Escape. Or Altior vs Bristol de Mai
Who's better ?

Chose that for a reason :highly_amused:

Obviously the question of who's the better horse when they are closely matched is opinion based (unless we say the ratings can be completely accurate across the spectrum of disciplines/distance) which they'r probably not as they tend to be peer driven.

 

[JackieMoon33]

Well performance does have to be relative to distance. Altior was/is the highest rated chaser but that is based on him running exclusively at 2m. If the owners decided to run him in the Welsh National I'm pretty sure he'd run to a mark way below his current OR.

Even though I was a backer of LIT last year from the start of the season, I happily conceded that DDS had his mark over 2m4f come the end of the season. Moving up in trip will bring improvement for LIT but at best DDS would maintain his level or potentially drop a bit. When they are both consistently running over their correct distances their ratings will reflect their performances.

I feel I'm waffling so I'll just end with I think LIT will be very competitive in the Gold Cup and I'm keeping faith in him from last season.

 

[Hurricane fly]

Just reading the stable tour in the RP

“We’ve has many horses run well in the CC at Cheltenham, but we’ve never managed to win it. Obviously we are keen to fill that void and CPS, Douvan and Cilaos Emery all potential contenders maybe our turn will come in 2020”

So we atleast know Min is Ryanair bound

 

[charlie]

Just reading the stable tour in the RP

“We’ve has many horses run well in the CC at Cheltenham, but we’ve never managed to win it. Obviously we are keen to fill that void and CPS, Douvan and Cilaos Emery all potential contenders maybe our turn will come in 2020”

So we atleast know Min is Ryanair bound

I am so glad to hear WPM talk about the CC and not mention Min, he's an important player for me in the Ryanair (this year )

 

[JackieMoon33]

Min
8g Walk In The Park - Phemyka
Mrs S Ricci
4/1151-2
RPR 180c OR 171c
He delivered a career-best performance when winning the Melling Chase by 20 lengths at Aintree in April and is back for another campaign in top races from 2m to about 2m4f. He might start off in the John Durkan at Punchestown, a race he won last year, and hopefully he’ll be adding to his four Grade 1 chase wins.

 

[charlie]

Min
8g Walk In The Park - Phemyka
Mrs S Ricci
4/1151-2
RPR 180c OR 171c
He delivered a career-best performance when winning the Melling Chase by 20 lengths at Aintree in April and is back for another campaign in top races from 2m to about 2m4f. He might start off in the John Durkan at Punchestown, a race he won last year, and hopefully he’ll be adding to his four Grade 1 chase wins.

Thanks Jackie, these updates are brilliant much appreciated (shall we move this to the Ryanair thread though )

 

[JackieMoon33]

Thanks Jackie, these updates are brilliant much appreciated (shall we move this to the Ryanair thread though )

It probably belongs in both as Willie is being his usual non-committal self :highly_amused:

 

[jack1092]

Not sure what makes you say that.
Breeding ?
Kemboy did alright and people doubted his stamina.

Until they try we'll never know.
What is becoming clearer though is that he's probably the classiest novice chaser to come out of the UK. But seemed to get put in his place at Punchestown over 2 miles.

The JLT last year was a real test. Robbie Power rode LIT for stamina, and tried to really test the others. They all fell away due to being less classy and/or giving up. They all slowed up the hill and Defi just relentlessly kept going,
Robbie Power was amazed that something passed him.

Anyhow, I can feel another hypothetical discussion gathering pace. We'll probably never know for sure.

The classier horses can pretty much beat the less classy at any trip. It's just there's not always a lot to separate the ability of the top horses, so the conditions on the day can make a but of a difference.

Kemboy wasn't a G1 2 miler or G1 2 1/2 miler. I just think it's highly unlikely to be the case unless he's literally a superstar. Would be interesting to see him in another race over 2 1/2 without LIT just running from the front and him being able to sit and stalk. The Sandown race was the same, even the one he won over 2m4 1/2 was similar he just had the 3 pound pull..

Agree though all hypothetical. Just think for him to be as good over 3mile he'd be an outright superstar...doubt he is!?

 

[Kevloaf]

Just reading the stable tour in the RP

“We’ve has many horses run well in the CC at Cheltenham, but we’ve never managed to win it. Obviously we are keen to fill that void and CPS, Douvan and Cilaos Emery all potential contenders maybe our turn will come in 2020”

So we atleast know Min is Ryanair bound

Probably forgot about Min cos he's not very good :highly_amused:

Just joking, he's very good. Just not great.



Very much believe that CPS and Douvan are held in highest regard, Min is the notch below.

The surprising one is Cilaos Emery, although in my head he's effectively an impressive, unexposed, moral Arkle winner - so fair enough.

 

[JackieMoon33]

Star quality

Sceau Royal
7g Doctor Dino - Sandside
Simon Munir and Isaac Suede
1/14232-
RPR 169c OR 164c

It had always been always the intention to bring him back in the Shloer Chase, like 12 months ago. Since he came back we’ve had a lovely clear run with him and he’s in grand order. But it would have been a waste of time on that ground at Cheltenham; he loves good or good to soft, and he’ll act on soft, but not the heavy we had at Sandown for the Tingle Creek last season; that was awful. We’ll now start off either in the Tingle Creek or the Peterborough at Huntingdon. I know he’s never run beyond 2m1f but I’d love to try him at 2m4f at some stage. He’s given us some great days and I must admit for a few moments in the Champion Chase I really thought we had Altior, but then Altior did what he always does. It’s easy to forget he’s only seven, so I hope there are more good days ahead.

 

[Humble Pie]

Great posts J.M
SR seems to have been around longer than his years
Ran in CH at 5

 

[Rigga]

Where do these quotes come from ? Very good read they are

 

[JackieMoon33]

Where do these quotes come from ? Very good read they are

Racing Post subscription service. You’ll see the same in the paper tomorrow but it’s online the night before.

 

[Rigga]

Keep em coming then ��

 

[billymag]

Sceau Royal has been so unlucky in his career to rarely get the ground he needs, on decent ground at the festival he would have a massive chance of winning this race, because hes been round so long people have kind of written him off but hes a rock solid 165 horse and with some decent ground at Chelt in this race I could see him landing it.

 

[Kevloaf]

It's 13/1 for Cyrname to win the 1965 Chase at Ascot doubled with Altior to win the QMCC.


IF Altior gets beaten, he is almost certainly going to go back to the 2 mile route?


He may still take in the King George if it's close, but you wouldn't be able to fancy him to win a King George (or Gold Cup) if he can't beat Cyrname.



IF anyone fancied Cyrname to upset Altior (and let's face it, most people can see the logical argument) this might be a sensible ante post almost related double?



Obviously Altior may not be any good any more, but I'd still want 13/1 about a horse that's a dual QMCC winner and 4 time festival winner?

and we'd KNOW the target... 13/1?

Who is with me? :highly_amused:

 

[Lobos]

It's 13/1 for Cyrname to win the 1965 Chase at Ascot doubled with Altior to win the QMCC.


IF Altior gets beaten, he is almost certainly going to go back to the 2 mile route?


He may still take in the King George if it's close, but you wouldn't be able to fancy him to win a King George (or Gold Cup) if he can't beat Cyrname.



IF anyone fancied Cyrname to upset Altior (and let's face it, most people can see the logical argument) this might be a sensible ante post almost related double?



Obviously Altior may not be any good any more, but I'd still want 13/1 about a horse that's a dual QMCC winner and 4 time festival winner?

and we'd KNOW the target... 13/1?

Who is with me? :highly_amused:

Now, you might be onto something there. Personally think this will happen. Backed Altior at 5's with Hills in the hope that it does.

 

[Kevloaf]

I don't know if 13/1 is big enough.

It probably is, in the Cyrname is over priced at the moment.


I don't know if Altior would shorten if he got beat though... I feel like he would, but for the wrong reasons.

 

[Lobos]

I don't know if 13/1 is big enough.

It probably is, in the Cyrname is over priced at the moment.


I don't know if Altior would shorten if he got beat though... I feel like he would, but for the wrong reasons.

He would deffo shorten if he got beat as his target would then he confirmed. 5/2 would be my guess.