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Mares Hurdle 2020

Dont really see the logic. Run her in the Irish Champion see what they have. If it doesnt work out and at that point they want to go for the mares they have that option to fall back on. Irish Champion worth a lot of money and will enhance value going forward, surely a no brainer. I suppose you could have a point about a hard race but I dont recall too many horses leaving their season behind after a two mile hurdle race, seems much more upside having a go than not. Then if she destroys the boys they it would be a big call not to go for the champion hurdle. 95% chance sounds awfully high to me, dont know the owners and their history so maybe they really do want to support the mares.
 
Would you not say that winning the Champion hurdle would do more for the Mares than winning the Mares. ??

I'd say yes.
100%
More prospective owners would sit up and take notice of that, as well as the array of mares only races they could compete in with any purchases.

And Annie Power's fanny is definitely worth more cos she won that race I'd say.

Fanny Power.
 
Would you not say that winning the Champion hurdle would do more for the Mares than winning the Mares. ??

I'd say yes.
100%
More prospective owners would sit up and take notice of that, as well as the array of mares only races they could compete in with any purchases.

And Annie Power's fanny is definitely worth more cos she won that race I'd say.

Fanny Power.

That's a really interesting point
 
Would you not say that winning the Champion hurdle would do more for the Mares than winning the Mares. ??

I'd say yes.
100%
More prospective owners would sit up and take notice of that, as well as the array of mares only races they could compete in with any purchases.

And Annie Power's fanny is definitely worth more cos she won that race I'd say.

Fanny Power.

:highly_amused::highly_amused: FFS!

On a horse racing note, the way the mares run last season in the Champion Hurdle would possibly put off owners running in it for a bit?

Laurina was extremely well thought of and she only managed 4th, I know some on here said she'd not be good enough over 2m and they were proved right on that occasion.
 
Dont really see the logic. Run her in the Irish Champion see what they have. If it doesnt work out and at that point they want to go for the mares they have that option to fall back on. Irish Champion worth a lot of money and will enhance value going forward, surely a no brainer. I suppose you could have a point about a hard race but I dont recall too many horses leaving their season behind after a two mile hurdle race, seems much more upside having a go than not. Then if she destroys the boys they it would be a big call not to go for the champion hurdle. 95% chance sounds awfully high to me, dont know the owners and their history so maybe they really do want to support the mares.

Surely they know that they have an absolute aeroplane on their hands! I’d run her in the mares baring in mind she’s never been to Cheltenham but what’s the easier race? Klassical dream could be anything still and Saldier looked very good the last day. Benie is a seriously good horse at the mares level, whichever way they go she has a seriously good chance and I think she can go to the very top. Pretty much stated the obvious but what a luxury to have for the owners.
 
Always an interesting debate about whether the best mares should be in championship races but it’s worth remembering that the industry has invested significant time/money in establishing a serious mares programme, whilst I get the argument that a Quevega/Annie Power etc may/were good enough to win against the boys it kind of defeats the object of developing the mares programme.
And, I’m guessing, but I assume there will have been engagement between authorities and breeders/trainers/owners when creating that mares programme and getting some sort of commitment otherwise there would seem little point in upgrading the mares race to G1 or initiating the novice race and G2 mares chase.
At least I assume there was a plan....
 
Always an interesting debate about whether the best mares should be in championship races but it’s worth remembering that the industry has invested significant time/money in establishing a serious mares programme, whilst I get the argument that a Quevega/Annie Power etc may/were good enough to win against the boys it kind of defeats the object of developing the mares programme.
And, I’m guessing, but I assume there will have been engagement between authorities and breeders/trainers/owners when creating that mares programme and getting some sort of commitment otherwise there would seem little point in upgrading the mares race to G1 or initiating the novice race and G2 mares chase.
At least I assume there was a plan....

Absolutely this and, from what I understand, Honeysuckles owners have been heavily involved in pushing for a more lucrative Mares programme which is why they are pretty certain to go that route and then onto the Mares Chase in 2021. If they did go Churdle then they would be going against what they have campaigned for.
 
Always an interesting debate about whether the best mares should be in championship races but it’s worth remembering that the industry has invested significant time/money in establishing a serious mares programme, whilst I get the argument that a Quevega/Annie Power etc may/were good enough to win against the boys it kind of defeats the object of developing the mares programme.
And, I’m guessing, but I assume there will have been engagement between authorities and breeders/trainers/owners when creating that mares programme and getting some sort of commitment otherwise there would seem little point in upgrading the mares race to G1 or initiating the novice race and G2 mares chase.
At least I assume there was a plan....

Glad you wrote this, as I really could not be bothered, but fully agree with the above.
 
Always an interesting debate about whether the best mares should be in championship races but it’s worth remembering that the industry has invested significant time/money in establishing a serious mares programme, whilst I get the argument that a Quevega/Annie Power etc may/were good enough to win against the boys it kind of defeats the object of developing the mares programme.
And, I’m guessing, but I assume there will have been engagement between authorities and breeders/trainers/owners when creating that mares programme and getting some sort of commitment otherwise there would seem little point in upgrading the mares race to G1 or initiating the novice race and G2 mares chase.
At least I assume there was a plan....

Does it though? I would make the point that true long term successful development of the mares programme must come collectively from all trainers. If the mares hurdle were capped forcing the likes of Quevega/Annie Power/Honeysuckle to go elsewhere, it would encourage more owners and trainers to collectively view the mares division as more competitive, which could increase the support for the mares programme in the long run. It is a very interesting debate
 
I doubt they will look at the Mares Chase until 2022, preferring the novice route next season, but the rest of Lobos' argument is logical enough. Even last season they were talking a 2 mile trip being less than ideal and it's usually stamina rather than speed that improves as they mature. 95% in the Mares looks quite conservative to me.
 
Just to add that I've been involved in owning shares in mares for 3 or 4 years now specifically because they've been developing the mares programme and giving the bonuses in mares bumpers, maiden hurdles and beginners chases.
 
Absolutely this and, from what I understand, Honeysuckles owners have been heavily involved in pushing for a more lucrative Mares programme which is why they are pretty certain to go that route and then onto the Mares Chase in 2021. If they did go Churdle then they would be going against what they have campaigned for.


Of course they have, considering they only buy mares.

They wouldn't necessarily be going against it, they have other mares too, capable of running in it and running well.

Honeysuckle as it stands is very much a mares hurdle runner, but if they do run in an Irish Champion which i believe has been mentioned, and she does bolt in, why wouldn't they ultimately make her more valuable as a broodmare by letting her take her chance in a champion?
 
Always an interesting debate about whether the best mares should be in championship races but it’s worth remembering that the industry has invested significant time/money in establishing a serious mares programme, whilst I get the argument that a Quevega/Annie Power etc may/were good enough to win against the boys it kind of defeats the object of developing the mares programme.
And, I’m guessing, but I assume there will have been engagement between authorities and breeders/trainers/owners when creating that mares programme and getting some sort of commitment otherwise there would seem little point in upgrading the mares race to G1 or initiating the novice race and G2 mares chase.
At least I assume there was a plan....

But they did this to encourage owners to buy and race more mares.
They'd (owners) have been buying them anyway if they were winning the championship races.
For some reason the industry were considering them inferior or not as competitive though.

So the mares programme was enhanced to encourage more.

So winning championship races or mares equivalent's going forward will have at least the same effect.
But I'd say more.

The mares are spoilt for choice.
 
For some reason the industry were considering them inferior or not as competitive though.

They still do, or they'd not be given an allowance against the boys.

And when you get a brilliant one like Annie Power it makes a mockery of the allowance IMO
 
They still do, or they'd not be given an allowance against the boys.

And when you get a brilliant one like Annie Power it makes a mockery of the allowance IMO

Even with the allowance in place they weren't buying enough though.
If I was buying a potentially classy NH horse I'd 100% prefer to look at a mare first, Knowing full well that the mares programme is available and would be happy to avail of those opportunites, but I'd ultimately be wanting/dreaming of a Champion hurdle or Gold Cup winner all day long. And we know it can be done. The more it's done, the more mares will get bought and bred.
 
Even with the allowance in place they weren't buying enough though.
If I was buying a potentially classy NH horse I'd 100% prefer to look at a mare first, Knowing full well that the mares programme is available and would be happy to avail of those opportunites, but I'd ultimately be wanting/dreaming of a Champion hurdle or Gold Cup winner all day long. And we know it can be done. The more it's done, the more mares will get bought and bred.

But at the end of the day if they're not buying mares with just the CH route to take (as it initally was), why suddenly put a mare in the CH when a specific program has been set up so you can run it in their own sex?

It's an interesting debate. I have a few options, but most would probably not be agreed upon. I'm sure some in racing also have ideas, but there must be a way around it, as the current process I think is slightly broken.
 
But at the end of the day if they're not buying mares with just the CH route to take (as it initally was), why suddenly put a mare in the CH when a specific program has been set up so you can run it in their own sex?

It's an interesting debate. I have a few options, but most would probably not be agreed upon. I'm sure some in racing also have ideas, but there must be a way around it, as the current process I think is slightly broken.

You run your horse in the race you want to run in, or the race where you have the best chance.
This should never change.

But the Festival should ideally be where we see the best vs the best. Irrespective of vagina or penis.

It would be a shame if they always kept themselves to themselves, just because we created a race just for them, as then we may be denied (like in the past) some really great match ups.

The champion hurdle last season would have been a little weakened had apples jade gone for the mares, as up till the race itself, she was head and shoulders above that champion hurdle field on her season's form.
And whilst Laurina also disappointed in the race, had she gone for the mares then this also would have made for a less interesting race.

Had Laurina vs Benie vs Apples been the mares hurdle.
I'd have watched that over the champion hurdle every time.

The last thing they'd want the mares programme to end up doing is making the champion hurdle look second best.

So far this season, even though we haven't seen Benie.
I'd say the 2 mares are the best available, and the Irish ratings agree.

As regards the original point I was making.
It would do no harm to the 'Mares' cause if Honeysuckle went for champion hurdle.

As regards the owners. If they are so set on the Mares Hurdle, then they ought to go for the red mills, so as to avoid temptation.
Apples Jades was 110% going to the Mares race before winning the Irish Champion by miles.
Be interesting to see what they do.
 
Just to add that I've been involved in owning shares in mares for 3 or 4 years now specifically because they've been developing the mares programme and giving the bonuses in mares bumpers, maiden hurdles and beginners chases.

I assumed this to be the case, appreciate the confirmation
 
But the Festival should ideally be where we see the best vs the best. Irrespective of vagina or penis.

So why have a mares race? To see the best mare, no? Roksana is possibly the 4th best mare (some might even disagree with that), yet she won a G1 at the festival, whilst the other mares were getting hammered in a CH, surely that's not right?

We either have a mares program and we stick to it or we drop it and go back to how it was, IMO.

I believe if a mare wins a G1 against the boys she should not be able to drop back into the mares division myself, over that specific discipline. They should also lose part of their allowance against the boys in the process.

You don't give the crap horses 30lbs in a champion hurdle just because they are inferior, so why a mare, who clearly would be good enough, in this case, Annie Power.

They need to go back to the drawing board for me.

Had Laurina vs Benie vs Apples been the mares hurdle.
I'd have watched that over the champion hurdle every time.

The last thing they'd want the mares programme to end up doing is making the champion hurdle look second best.

I agree with the mare hurdle match, that would have been brilliant I am sure. As for the Champion Hurdle, it's in decline IMO, and has been in recent years (many have said on here how crap the division is), but that's nothing to do with the mares for me, it's because it seems most horses go chasing or step up in trip after their novice days, instead of sticking it out over 2m hurdles. The reason being, I don't actually know. Maybe someone can shed some light?
 
The reason being, I don't actually know. Maybe someone can shed some light?

The point to point boom? Sales going through the roof- majority seen as chasers or stayers?

Flat horses going to AUS + HK?