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Cheltenham Gold Cup 2020

Just saw that on twitter -it sounds like quite the story!
 
Wow, this could have serious affects on Supreme!
 
The King Pimm said:
Yeah just saw that myself about Kemboy. Supreme Racing Club are the owners along with Brett Graham and Kenneth Sharp. I wonder if it’s just Kemboy suspended?? Archie, are you in a position to comment?? None of my business I know but just curious
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All supreme horses. Kemboy / aramon......

Massively over subscribed shares seems to be the main issue.
 
The King Pimm said:
Yeah just saw that myself about Kemboy. Supreme Racing Club are the owners along with Brett Graham and Kenneth Sharp. I wonder if it’s just Kemboy suspended?? Archie, are you in a position to comment?? None of my business I know but just curious
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On Jumps racing Uk.....it’s all incl Aramon, etc.....no entries will be accepted until issues sorted
 
Scooby91 said:
All supreme horses. Kemboy / aramon......

Massively over subscribed shares seems to be the main issue.
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Oh there's more too, probably why i don't praise them or mention much about them on here- they have been at it years.

Issue i have is Listen Dear is in sales today, which probably isn't the best sale to sell her at anyway. I haven't heard anythign about whether that goes through.
 
Willie sounded quite upbeat so hopefully it will be resolved soon.

Other than that, I'll basically only deal in fact rather than rumour.
 
archie said:
Willie sounded quite upbeat so hopefully it will be resolved soon.

Other than that, I'll basically only deal in fact rather than rumour.
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Plenty of rumours floating about Archie but hopefully you aren't too badly affected by it all and it can all be resolved soon.

Everyone loses out on this if they don't get their house in order.

Best wishes for the season ahead.
 
archie said:
Willie sounded quite upbeat so hopefully it will be resolved soon.

Other than that, I'll basically only deal in fact rather than rumour.
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Well responded Archie. Hopefully it gets sorted soon and good luck
 
Its really unfortunate, and i believe the owners, including myself will be stung because of it. Goffs are holding the LD sale money for the normal 30days, hopefully it doesn't get paid into the wrong hands.
 
After listening to the latest FFP with Rory Delarghy it's hard having been such a fan of Presenting Percy not to be drawn back towards him being a decent bet at 20/1 in this and reignite the (scooby and archie) vs (the forum) debate for this horse :devilish:

1/5 odds at 20 is not enough right now for me to back but it's hard not to think if he turns up for some races like the John Durkan and looks ok that he'll be back in my bets for this race. (obviously having to except a cut in price)
 
I'm humbled that you would nickname me "The Forum"

:highly_amused:

You can get 22/1 with PP if you're lucky.



Would certainly fall into the category of being over looked as a previous years fav that disappointed.



Won't be for everybody but I'd kick myself if I hadn't backed him.
 
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jono said:
After listening to the latest FFP with Rory Delarghy it's hard having been such a fan of Presenting Percy not to be drawn back towards him being a decent bet at 20/1 in this and reignite the (scooby and archie) vs (the forum) debate for this horse :devilish:

1/5 odds at 20 is not enough right now for me to back but it's hard not to think if he turns up for some races like the John Durkan and looks ok that he'll be back in my bets for this race. (obviously having to except a cut in price)
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In all reality, you still think percy is a better horse than ABP?

Pretty sure I took a lot of knocking on ABP last year. (33s) which led me to keep backing him further each tme.
Which was greatly appreciated.
 
Scooby91 said:
In all reality, you still think percy is a better horse than ABP?

Pretty sure I took a lot of knocking on ABP last year. (33s) which led me to keep backing him further each tme.
Which was greatly appreciated.
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At this moment of time Al Boum Photo is the better horse. He's the Gold Cup winner so I can't say otherwise. I certainly don't think he improved 33 lengths ahead of Percy though as the result suggests. I know you were strong on ABP not being out of the race when he fell in the RSA but even going along that thought, there's no way the pair wouldn't have been in close proximity at the finish. At the very worst PP would have been a close 2nd of ABP were to have get up and win. Fair play you held that view against the majority and it paid dividends. But there was still guesswork and assumption there.

Likewise there's the uncertainty in the Gold Cup. Less so absolutely but I dont think even the anti Percy fans could say he ran his race no? Didnt look anything like the same horse as previous years and came out the race lame. When that occurred in the race who knows. For me the performance suggests during but again added uncertainty.

For me there's been 2 meetings between the pair. 1 apiece but both times the losing horse could have an excuse to a varying degrees. AbP 100% went up another level last year. His Tramore form was franked with the Thythes winner and then he won the Gold Cup and came 2nd at Punchestown. He's raised his game and sets the bar. Maybe you were right and the RSA win was Percys peak and his experience was the key and now he's been surpassed but personally until they meet again when they both stay up and perform on merit then there will always be a level of uncertainty there. Hopefully we get that this winter.

For me if you were a backer last year as a short price fav you have to at least consider him again at much bigger price. But then people who were against him would say his price last year was madness and his price now is probably what it should have been all along and now with last years race still not appealing.

This time last year PP set the standard. Now it's completely the other way and ABP does to a wider margin. But then the price is in and around a fair price that reflects that.
 
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jono said:
At this moment of time Al Boum Photo is the better horse. He's the Gold Cup winner so I can't say otherwise. I certainly don't think he improved 33 lengths ahead of Percy though as the result suggests. I know you were strong on ABP not being out of the race when he fell in the RSA but even going along that thought, there's no way the pair wouldn't have been in close proximity at the finish. At the very worst PP would have been a close 2nd of ABP were to have get up and win. Fair play you held that view against the majority and it paid dividends. But there was still guesswork and assumption there.

Likewise there's the uncertainty in the Gold Cup. Less so absolutely but I dont think even the anti Percy fans could say he ran his race no? Didnt look anything like the same horse as previous years and came out the race lame. When that occurred in the race who knows. For me the performance suggests during but again added uncertainty.

For me there's been 2 meetings between the pair. 1 apiece but both times the losing horse could have an excuse to a varying degrees. AbP 100% went up another level last year. His Tramore form was franked with the Thythes winner and then he won the Gold Cup and came 2nd at Punchestown. He's raised his game and sets the bar. Maybe you were right and the RSA win was Percys peak and his experience was the key and now he's been surpassed but personally until they meet again when they both stay up and perform on merit then there will always be a level of uncertainty there. Hopefully we get that this winter.

For me if you were a backer last year as a short price fav you have to at least consider him again at much bigger price. But then people who were against him would say his price last year was madness and his price now is probably what it should have been all along and now with last years race still not appealing.

This time last year PP set the standard. Now it's completely the other way and ABP does to a wider margin. But then the price is in and around a fair price that reflects that.
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I'd agree with pretty much all of that, apart from, I pretty much think he ran his race. Or what could be expected of him with what I deem a poor prep anyway

He can probably do a little better, with a better prep. But I cant see any way he turns the tables on ABP personally. I think thats long gone. If he ever was better than him.

ABP himself is a more than a fair price on the exchanges at around 10.0. Imo.
 
jono said:
At this moment of time Al Boum Photo is the better horse. He's the Gold Cup winner so I can't say otherwise. I certainly don't think he improved 33 lengths ahead of Percy though as the result suggests. I know you were strong on ABP not being out of the race when he fell in the RSA but even going along that thought, there's no way the pair wouldn't have been in close proximity at the finish. At the very worst PP would have been a close 2nd of ABP were to have get up and win. Fair play you held that view against the majority and it paid dividends. But there was still guesswork and assumption there.

Likewise there's the uncertainty in the Gold Cup. Less so absolutely but I dont think even the anti Percy fans could say he ran his race no? Didnt look anything like the same horse as previous years and came out the race lame. When that occurred in the race who knows. For me the performance suggests during but again added uncertainty.

For me there's been 2 meetings between the pair. 1 apiece but both times the losing horse could have an excuse to a varying degrees. AbP 100% went up another level last year. His Tramore form was franked with the Thythes winner and then he won the Gold Cup and came 2nd at Punchestown. He's raised his game and sets the bar. Maybe you were right and the RSA win was Percys peak and his experience was the key and now he's been surpassed but personally until they meet again when they both stay up and perform on merit then there will always be a level of uncertainty there. Hopefully we get that this winter.

For me if you were a backer last year as a short price fav you have to at least consider him again at much bigger price. But then people who were against him would say his price last year was madness and his price now is probably what it should have been all along and now with last years race still not appealing.

This time last year PP set the standard. Now it's completely the other way and ABP does to a wider margin. But then the price is in and around a fair price that reflects that.
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Great post Jono
 
Interesting post by both and valid points made .
You’ve each been supportive of both horses early doors and stuck by your opinions
Not going to sit on the fence , piles not required:-) lol
I’m in the ABP camp but wish PP the best despite his unconventional prep
 
It has to be highly likely the prep Presenting Percy got wasn't planned.

The previous two years he had the 'famous' two runs in Feb, and the year he won the RSA he ran 25th Jan then 17th Feb.

Last season I feel safe in assuming something went wrong so he couldn't run again in Feb.


We may never know if he had an issue, but if we assume it, then isn't his run more foregivable?

People are willing to forgive Delta Work and Santini for their poor preps and use that as an angle as to why they can win a Gold Cup?



If Percy was shorter than them, no arguement - at his price I don't think it's a hard case to make.

Coming back lame is always a reason to put a line through a run for me, for any horse so I'd definitely not agree that he ran his race.
 
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Patrick G Kelly , personally think it’s great to have “personalities” in the game
Kev you’re making an assumption , you maybe correct and you maybe not.
Unconventional PGK does it his way and good luck to him
 
Humble Pie said:
Patrick G Kelly , personally think it’s great to have “personalities” in the game
Kev you’re making an assumption , you maybe correct and you maybe not.
Unconventional PGK does it his way and good luck to him
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I know I am.:)

Nobody knows, but when Presenting Percy was 10/3f last year and is 22/1 now I think that's worth taking a little play on.


People are making assumptions that Delta Work would have been better with a different ride (Gordon Elliott)
People are making assumptions Santini will definitely be better for the 3m2f trip (I've not heard anyone disagree)
People are making assumptions that Lostintranslation's beating of Topofthegame is a true running of their merits.


If PPercy was 10/1 and Santini, Delta Work, Lostintranslation, Al Boum Photo were all 22/1 - it's a totally different ball game.
 
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