2025 Stayers Hurdle

[Quevega]

Don’t forget that all winners of qualifiers automatically get a run. So this may lead to more horses with rating below the previous ‘bottom’ getting in. I don’t think there will be many but it is something to be aware of.

I think the winners still have to be within the handicap or something daft like that.
I remember reading it and thinking it didn't really make sense, but just googled and then got fed up.

 

[DenmanSacre]

I think the winners still have to be within the handicap or something daft like that.
I remember reading it and thinking it didn't really make sense, but just googled and then got fed up.

Yeah they need to be in the handicap proper to get a run. So if The Wallpark runs, some of the lower rated ones may not get in. Someone put up a lower rated horse on a podcast I saw which wouldn't get in it The Wallpark ran and didn't mention the possibility of no run (albeit they'd probably just get balloted out and the bet refunded).

 

[Quevega]

Yeah they need to be in the handicap proper to get a run. So if The Wallpark runs, some of the lower rated ones may not get in. Someone put up a lower rated horse on a podcast I saw which wouldn't get in it The Wallpark ran and didn't mention the possibility of no run (albeit they'd probably just get balloted out and the bet refunded).

That makes sense the way you've put it.
Not that good an incentive really.
Just gaining a preference over any horses on the same mark.

 

[ComplyOrDie]

That makes sense the way you've put it.
Not that good an incentive really.
Just gaining a preference over any horses on the same mark.

I thought 'win and In' would mean they would have to race from outside their handicap mark, but were guaranteed a run. So those low rated animals would still have to race off the minimum weight even if they were entitled to more weight off, due to their marks. Clearly I've got that wrong then :highly_amused:

 

[DenmanSacre]

I thought 'win and In' would mean they would have to race from outside their handicap mark, but were guaranteed a run. So those low rated animals would still have to race off the minimum weight even if they were entitled to more weight off, due to their marks. Clearly I've got that wrong then :highly_amused:

Plenty of time for the BHA to change the rules again!

Not sure how many qualifiers there are but are there less qualifiers than runners allowed?

 

[Wayward Lad]

Plenty of time for the BHA to change the rules again!

Not sure how many qualifiers there are but are there less qualifiers than runners allowed?

Not ‘changing the rules’ DS, as the correct terminology is ‘clarifying the rules’ ! :biggrin-new:

 

[Killiney]

I thought 'win and In' would mean they would have to race from outside their handicap mark, but were guaranteed a run. So those low rated animals would still have to race off the minimum weight even if they were entitled to more weight off, due to their marks. Clearly I've got that wrong then :highly_amused:

I must admit that was my take on it. To have a guaranteed place when you are already one of the 24 runners does not make sense to me. I suppose if you have the same rating as the 25 horse then it makes some (but not a lot of) sense.

 

[Kevloaf]

AaronLad
I hope you're watching Road To Cheltenham .... Ruby's summary compared to yours is interesting

 

[AaronLad]

AaronLad
I hope you're watching Road To Cheltenham .... Ruby's summary compared to yours is interesting

Did i just watch 29m15s for Ruby Walsh to say " Is he? Time will tell"
Thanks for the heads up kev, should I cash out? :emmersed::tan:

 

[Kevloaf]

Did i just watch 29m15s for Ruby Walsh to say " Is he? Time will tell"
Thanks for the heads up kev, should I cash out? :emmersed::tan:

hahahaaaaa, perfect

I nearly told you the time stamp but in my head this way was much funnier

Good to know that I'm thinking about you though isn't it :love_heart:

I was hoping they were going to expand and analyse (either way) and just nothing. :triumphant:


and no don't cash out, I'm on too now remember.... #teamLucky

 

[Rooster Booster]

hahahaaaaa, perfect

I nearly told you the time stamp but in my head this way was much funnier

Good to know that I'm thinking about you though isn't it :love_heart:

I was hoping they were going to expand and analyse (either way) and just nothing. :triumphant:


and no don't cash out, I'm on too now remember.... #teamLucky

Two for tea now referred to as two for lucky.

 

[Kevloaf]

Mystical Power
Paddy Power Stayers' Hurdle, 33-1
He could run in the Red Mills Hurdle next week and will likely go for the Stayers' Hurdle if he travels over to Cheltenham.​





Never before, has highlighting something so early, looked so smart, and been so pointless :indecisiveness:


Same price, half a year on

 

[Lobos]

Mystical Power
Paddy Power Stayers' Hurdle, 33-1
He could run in the Red Mills Hurdle next week and will likely go for the Stayers' Hurdle if he travels over to Cheltenham.​





Never before, has highlighting something so early, looked so smart, and been so pointless :indecisiveness:


Same price, half a year on

He is a serious EW bet though isn't he? Take the fav out and it's an awful race, truly awful.

 

[riccirich]

He is a serious EW bet though isn't he? Take the fav out and it's an awful race, truly awful.

He'd be the exact opposite of what I'd consider a good each way bet. Could win, could pull up three out. The step up in trip could help, but he's been so awful that he could just be done.

 

[Kevloaf]

He is a serious EW bet though isn't he? Take the fav out and it's an awful race, truly awful.

He's shown zero to justify a bet

So it's guesswork ...




Home By The Lee doesn't have 3 better than him?


Can see the Lucky Place case that AaronLad made



If I had one bet now, it wouldn't be Mystical Power ...

 

[AaronLad]

He is a serious EW bet though isn't he? Take the fav out and it's an awful race, truly awful.

Im really not wanting to appear to be sticking up for "the brits", but I am heavily invested in this horse, and it's an opinion of mine, which on multiple occasions in different ways you have completely dismissed.
on this occasion decribing anything else in the race bar the favourite awful. I respect you can have that opinion but why are you so sure?

What has lucky place done to be described as awful Lobos?

Having never been tried at 3 miles, if you was to describe him as unproven over the trip I could understand.
Maybe explaining to me that the races he has won this season havent really been about stamina, I could also understand this, because it is quite accurate, but it doesnt mean he wont stay.

There's good signs that he will stay 3 miles I'd say to you. He has half siblings who raced in France, speed lucky winning over 4.700m(2.92 miles) and ultra lucky 4.400m(2.73miles).
He is also related to screaming colours, winner of the midlands national, through his damsire perrault.

But there has also this season been encouraging signs through his sire pastorius that his progeny have a bit of stamina as well as pace.
July flower ran an extremely good race in a French grade 1 over 3m1f.
Also just yesterday zenta, acheiving pastorius first chase winner, staying a 2m 5f trip in ground described as soft/heavy very well.

Then we have his Cheltenham form, 2 excellent runs here as a 5yold, 2nd to gidleigh park, which imo is top class form, and a fine 4th place in the coral cup, a novice 5 year old against some very experienced rivals. And of course his relkeel hurdle win, giving gowel road 6lbs, who of course has since gone on and franked that form in the Cleeve hurdle.

I do apologise for sounding like a broken record on him, but he's hardly awful is he Lobos?
I understand its a price thing now, but you could at least acknowledge he actually has a chance.

 

[Lobos]

He has a chance of coming 2nd yes and he's definitely not awful..........the race is awful and can't be described as a Grade 1.

 

[Many Clouds]

You must be able to see it's a bloody awful race this year, in recent years it wasn't the best but still had decent horses capable of anything on their day with the likes of Flooring Porter, Sire Du Berlais, Paisley Park, Klassical Dream etc

Now they've all gone, without Teahupoo, Home by the lee is favourite on his 4th try at the race and then Lucky Place who's best form is beating a mid 140s horse in Gowell Road.

Without Teahupoo it looks like a handicap when you go down the list of runners. Probably one where a bet in the "without the fave" market is best nearer the time.

 

[AaronLad]

You must be able to see it's a bloody awful race this year, in recent years it wasn't the best but still had decent horses capable of anything on their day with the likes of Flooring Porter, Sire Du Berlais, Paisley Park, Klassical Dream etc

Now they've all gone, without Teahupoo, Home by the lee is favourite on his 4th try at the race and then Lucky Place who's best form is beating a mid 140s horse in Gowell Road.

Without Teahupoo it looks like a handicap when you go down the list of runners. Probably one where a bet in the "without the fave" market is best nearer the time.

It's never in my lifetime been a truly deep race full of superstars though, even the greatest staying hurdlers of all time inglis drever and big bucks, were tried at either shorter and wasn't good enough in inglis drevers case or in big bucks case tried as a chaser and wasn't any good at it. But even in their dominant times you could hardly describe their wins as deep.

The horses you mention above never truly faced each other when they were all at their peak, Paisley Park and sire du berlais both 9 by the time flooring porter was winning his first stayers crown. and 3 of those came through handicaps bar klassical dream who only ever raced in graded races bar novice hurdle and novice chase.

So while I can accept its not a deep race I'd say it never has been.

 

[Wayward Lad]

Maybe the race will become a handicap in the near future, like the Turners Chase, Nat Hunt Chase and Cross Country this year ?

Would probably become more competitive, but the edge would be with the bookmakers methinks and how many handicaps is good for a festival of NH racing?