2022 Triumph Hurdle

[Saxon Warrior]

Is his middle name Hitler? :highly_amused::highly_amused::highly_amused:
(Think of the war time song)

:congratulatory::congratulatory::congratulatory:

 

[germanshepherd]

No shit there Sherlock.

Why everyone digging him out then? If he hasn't got the horses he wont run them there. Up yours!

 

[somer1]

Why everyone digging him out then? If he hasn't got the horses he wont run them there. Up yours!

Perhaps we want to see the best horses take each other on. There is a thing called place money.
And its why is not Why everyone.

 

[Zachx02]

Nicholls avoiding cheltenham with his best horses is why I think Dan Skelton will become top trainer in the next few season I reckon

 

[germanshepherd]

Perhaps we want to see the best horses take each other on. There is a thing called place money.
And its why is not Why everyone.

He hasn't had the best horses. If he thinks they have a win chance they'll run. He knows their ability better than people on this forum that have had their ?10 on.

 

[Saxon Warrior]

Why everyone digging him out then? If he hasn't got the horses he wont run them there. Up yours!

For me, its because if he doesn’t run them at Cheltenham he doesn’t even know if they’re good enough or not.

Monmiral a case in point.

The best Juvenile Hurdler, by a few lbs, he deliberately missed Cheltenham to run at Aintree for a softer Grade 1, when the horse could have won both.

I don’t see a problem with him skipping the Festival with horses that have been beaten there, but he really ought to have his top and/or unbeaten novices and juveniles running there, to see if they can win the big races.

He’s gone a bit soft, unfortunately, and yes it’s probably great for his owners, fishing in smaller ponds for good prize money, but for any new potential super-owner, they re just going to skip going to him, and head for Ireland instead.

I’m hoping Dan Skelton goes by him as soon as possible, and we can see if we can have the top trainer aiming at the top prizes at the top race meeting in the country he trains in.

I don’t see Gordon, Henry, Willie and Gavin Cromwell saying that they’re skipping Cheltenham with their best horses, to try and win a race at Fairyhouse or Punchestown. Hopefully that never happens.

 

[nortonscoin200]

He hasn't had the best horses. If he thinks they have a win chance they'll run. He knows their ability better than people on this forum that have had their ?10 on.

Reckon you have a point GS.

As punters it's not what we want and, if you're right, it's a shame our multiple champion trainer believes he doesn't have the ammo to take on Ireland's finest in several Festival races.

But maybe he's just taking the pragmatic approach.

 

[Cashew King]

Zinc White out on Thurs at Ffos Llas. ?310k purchase from the flat for Olly Greenall - might double it with Bill Baxter (both at Ffos Llas)

Greenall’s comments at the sale:

"From what I've seen of him he looks to have a fantastic attitude and he's very likeable. If it rained we might run him at Ascot but it's looking slightly doubtful at the moment. If not he'll have a break and we'll get him ready for a hurdling campaign.

"We try and buy a bit of everything, stores, form horses, French, Irish but we've done well with horses off the Flat before so hopefully he'll have a great future with Cheltenham being the long-term aim. He's for a new owner in the yard who was very keen to have him so it was nice to get him."

 

[somer1]

He hasn't had the best horses. If he thinks they have a win chance they'll run. He knows their ability better than people on this forum that have had their ?10 on.

As John Noakes said "Get Down Shep"
So your saying if they cant win don't run them at the fest? I bet David Pipe never said that to the owners of that horse that cant be named (Sorry Kev it was close) What your saying is lets have fields of 4 runners that might win. So to me get back in ya kennel.:sleeping:
Last word on this from sweet little ole me.:highly_amused:

 

[Quevega]

He hasn't had the best horses. If he thinks they have a win chance they'll run. He knows their ability better than people on this forum that have had their ?10 on.

He thought frodon could win a gold cup.
and cyrname before that.
and clan des obeaux before that.
I didn’t have ?10 on any of them cos they had no chance. And he should’ve known better .

I think he talks bollocks more than he needs to.
less is more, like uncle Willie

 

[Ray]

Hes conceded thats all hes done, and to make himself feel more comfortable hell say cheltenham aint the most important thing in the world, hes class at picking up money elsewhere but its like ronaldo playing in the 1st division

 

[Deleted member 4957]

Nicholls avoiding cheltenham with his best horses is why I think Dan Skelton will become top trainer in the next few season I reckon

I don’t disagree but I thought Skelton was poor at Cheltenham last March.
He believed Allmankind could beat Shishkin, had Not That Fuisse executing a two year plan in the G Annual and could only manage 5th, had Third Time Lucki plotted for the County and he found about half a dozen better on the day, threw Roksana in the Mares having shown improved form all year for the step up to 3m.
He is an outstanding trainer who will win plenty of UK titles and no doubt a few big festival races but I think he’d like to have a few of those decisions back…

 

[germanshepherd]

He thought frodon could win a gold cup.
and cyrname before that.
and clan des obeaux before that.
I didn’t have ?10 on any of them cos they had no chance. And he should’ve known better .

I think he talks bollocks more than he needs to.
less is more, like uncle Willie

They forced his hand by winning the King George. His best usually do run there that's the point. Cyrname hasn't run at Cheltenham. I know you have ?10 a point though. Probably more than Spectre with his 20 points at ?2 a point :topsy_turvy:

 

[Quevega]

They forced his hand by winning the King George. His best usually do run there that's the point. Cyrname hasn't run at Cheltenham. I know you have ?10 a point though. Probably more than Spectre with his 20 points at ?2 a point :topsy_turvy:

Clever boy.
fact is, he don’t get it right all the time.
like yourself
Myself
and everybody else.
which is why we sometimes know better, and sometimes we don’t

 

[Lobos]

Nicholls avoiding cheltenham with his best horses is why I think Dan Skelton will become top trainer in the next few season I reckon

Trouble is, I can see Skelton making similar decisions with some of his top animals. It shouldn't be a surprise though given he was PN's assistant.

 

[Cheltenham Novice Chase]

I don’t disagree but I thought Skelton was poor at Cheltenham last March.
He believed Allmankind could beat Shishkin, had Not That Fuisse executing a two year plan in the G Annual and could only manage 5th, had Third Time Lucki plotted for the County and he found about half a dozen better on the day, threw Roksana in the Mares having shown improved form all year for the step up to 3m.
He is an outstanding trainer who will win plenty of UK titles and no doubt a few big festival races but I think he’d like to have a few of those decisions back…

I agree with every word of this regarding Dan Skelton. I think Harry Skelton would also like to take back the way he rode Allmankind in the Arkle. He set a daft pace and paid the price. I think he’d also want to redo the ride on Not That Fuisse too. He left him with too much to do too late. That said, I think Dan Skelton will be Champion trainer before long and is one to have on side when he gets the right ammo.

Let’s be clear, Paul Nichols is a phenomenal trainer but I think he’s also a realist. He also values chasing above hurdling, which I think answers the question regarding Monmiral. ie he’d much rather mind him and have a successful chasing career with him than bottom him out but win a Triumph in the process.

He entered Bravemansgame, whom he valued highly. He entered Next Destination whom he valued highly. Yes, he might let his enthusiasm get the better of him when horses like Frodon win a King George or whatever but you roll the dice and you take your chance. Who would have thought Politologue would have won the Champion Chase when Altior and Chacun when entered (albeit they didn’t run) or Dodging Bullets. He knows what he’s doing he just needs the firepower.

 

[Quevega]

I agree with every word of this regarding Dan Skelton. I think Harry Skelton would also like to take back the way he rode Allmankind in the Arkle. He set a daft pace and paid the price. I think he’d also want to redo the ride on Not That Fuisse too. He left him with too much to do too late. That said, I think Dan Skelton will be Champion trainer before long and is one to have on side when he gets the right ammo.

Let’s be clear, Paul Nichols is a phenomenal trainer but I think he’s also a realist. He also values chasing above hurdling, which I think answers the question regarding Monmiral. ie he’d much rather mind him and have a successful chasing career with him than bottom him out but win a Triumph in the process.

He entered Bravemansgame, whom he valued highly. He entered Next Destination whom he valued highly. Yes, he might let his enthusiasm get the better of him when horses like Frodon win a King George or whatever but you roll the dice and you take your chance. Who would have thought Politologue would have won the Champion Chase when Altior and Chacun when entered (albeit they didn’t run) or Dodging Bullets. He knows what he’s doing he just needs the firepower.

Bottom out and triumph hurdle don’t deserve to be in the same sentence.
And anyone who thinks differently doesn’t know what they’re doing or saying.

 

[Cheltenham Novice Chase]

Bottom out and triumph hurdle don’t deserve to be in the same sentence.
And anyone who thinks differently doesn’t know what they’re doing or saying.

That depends upon the nature of the race, surely? A hard run race at the end of a season for a young horse could absolutely impact the horse going forward. Henderson doesn’t like the Bumper, probably for good reason, may be a similar reason. Personally, I am happy to concede that Nichols, Henderson and Skelton know way more than me on horse racing and a hell of a lot more than me on what is and isn’t right for their horses. Anyone who thinks they know more than these trainers doesn’t know what they’re doing or saying.

I would love to see Nichols and Skelton run all heir best horses at the festival but may be, just may be, there are reasons for not doing so.

 

[Quevega]

That depends upon the nature of the race, surely? A hard run race at the end of a season for a young horse could absolutely impact the horse going forward. Henderson doesn’t like the Bumper, probably for good reason, may be a similar reason. Personally, I am happy to concede that Nichols, Henderson and Skelton know way more than me on horse racing and a hell of a lot more than me on what is and isn’t right for their horses. Anyone who thinks they know more than these trainers doesn’t know what they’re doing or saying.

I would love to see Nichols and Skelton run all heir best horses at the festival but may be, just may be, there are reasons for not doing so.

The reason is that their Irish counterparts are better.

And they rarely come out with shit excuses like bottoming horses.
FWIW I have no major problems with trainers running their owners horses where they all see fit. If I owned a horse in the uk and thought the Irish were better then I’d avoid them.
it’s the bullshit that comes out of their mouths I take issue with.
and the ammunition argument is also a bug bare.
The best Irish trainers would get more out of the horses trained in the uk on average and the opposite would be true if they sent some over here.
nichols got several good horses from Willie last year and that went well.
he could have proved a point, and sadly he did.

 

[Saxon Warrior]

I don’t disagree but I thought Skelton was poor at Cheltenham last March.
He believed Allmankind could beat Shishkin, had Not That Fuisse executing a two year plan in the G Annual and could only manage 5th, had Third Time Lucki plotted for the County and he found about half a dozen better on the day, threw Roksana in the Mares having shown improved form all year for the step up to 3m.
He is an outstanding trainer who will win plenty of UK titles and no doubt a few big festival races but I think he’d like to have a few of those decisions back…

Ista, you are right.

Skleton had a rough old time as jockey at the Festival, and seemed to get over-excited when he had a good chance on one or two.