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Ryanair 2019

And Min hasn't yet shown the run style of a Vautour, Uxizandre, UDS or Cue Card whom all went hard and fast and jumped great on the day, leaving trailers in their wake.
Although Min may be capable of this I suppose.
 
Imperial Commander outstaying the odds on Voy Por Ustedes would be the one that immediately springs to mind for me!
 
Interesting boopa... they're certainly two horses coming at this race from different angles. Thought I'd have a look at previous winners and see which ones I consider 2 milers UP IN TRIP and which I consider stayers DOWN IN TRIP and if anything is a 'trip specialist'

2 milers
Un De Sceaux (2017) definitely in this camp, 2 miler than stayed the trip and oozes class.

Stayers
Dynaste (2014) went off 3/1 fav - I'd say he was a stayer than dropped back and won this race because it was a weak year! He was second in a JLT (then Jewson) before going up to 3miles at Aintree for that Grade 1 and winning as a novice, (after also winning the Kauto Star - then Feltham).

Imperial Commander (2009) - Not going to look in to this too much as I've had enough now (have gone back from 2018 to now despite this being early in the post) but won a Gold Cup so clearly can be classed as a top class stayer.


Intermediate
Vautour (2016) his two standout races are the Ryanair and JLT - he had one try and 3m and emptied out to be caught very late by Cue Card. He had the class over 3m but impossible to say he was a stayer - for me he was a trip specialist, although did win the Supreme over 2m (but in the style of a horse that would get further)

Balko Des Flos (2018) has had 5 runs at 3m - form 54324 (Albeit some of that is good form) but if you look at his record at 2m4f or 2m6f it reads form 1713F312314 - so 4 wins at less than 3m but over 2m. He could prove me wrong by the end of the season but for now, he's here on merit.

Uxizandre (2015) is closer to being a two miler than 3 miler but did win 1 hurdle race over 3m1f. However he won a Schloer Chase on the way to winning the Ryanair that season. He got a great ride that day, DOn Cossack who would be firmly in the stayer category was only 3rd that day... the 'pick' of his form would have been this race though?

Cue Card (2013) - hard to pin down really to a trip as he was on the go for so long and good enough to compete in Grade 1's all the way through. Won a Champion Bumper and went off 7/4f for the Supreme over 2m, won a Ryanair the year after being beaten by Sprinter Sacre in his Arkle, kept getting beaten in the King George before winning it against Vautour and fell when in the mix in a Gold Cup. Can have him in any section, anomoly?

Albertas Run (2010/2011) - Won this race twice, easily his best form and therefore confidently in the Intermediate section.

Riverside Theatre (2012) - Was a 2 miler for a long long time but then won 3 grade 1's on the spin at 2m5f (ending with his Ryanair) so very hard to say that wasn't his best trip too?



Impossible to really know if "best trip" is fair, because better horses were either running at 2m and 3m2f in every single edition of this, so we'll never really know.


In terms of Monalee and Min, neither have yet proved what there best trip is. Min has stuck to 2m in the main and is clearly at a very good level - I think this year they'll explore him UP IN TRIP and it could see him pick up a win in this race.
Monalee has been running at 3 miles and is also clearly at a very good level. I don't see him excelling at any further, so a STEP DOWN IN TRIP may well see him pick up this race.



Impossible to rule either out despite their different paths in my ever so humble opinion.

Bumping my own thread while you all attack me at the same time :highly_amused:
 
You can scrap waiting patiently and fox Norton. Willoughby courts not good enough. Neithers terrefort. Charbel looks an unlikely runner.

Is Fox Norton injured, or going Champion Chase?
Charbel is a big player and I'd be amazed if they skipped this. He was giving Altior a race in the Arkle and looks better than ever at the moment.
 
Save your time lads.
It's a 3 horse race.

Top notch
Min
Politologue.

Get your pins out and hit one.
 
Is Fox Norton injured, or going Champion Chase?
Charbel is a big player and I'd be amazed if they skipped this. He was giving Altior a race in the Arkle and looks better than ever at the moment.

Fox Norton is being aimed at the QMCC from Tizzard's stable tour.

Kim Bailey did seem to suggest Charbel wants flat tracks, so reading between the lines...
 
Save your time lads.
It's a 3 horse race.

Top notch
Min
Politologue.

Get your pins out and hit one.

You have the game by the balls Scooby, the rest of us should give up:highly_amused:
 
Sorry have I missed something?

Which renrewals of the Ryanair have been won by a stayer, outstaying the best horse in the race?

I've been back through and put my two pennies in on it, but this notion that stayers win the Ryanair is being taken for granted... I feel I've shown that is ISN'T always the case?

Quite easy to make an argument last year's was won by a horse that stays better than UDS. He did finish 1.25 Ls off the winner in the Lexus after all.

Vautour stayed 3 miles as did Dynaste...quite a few have stayed well? Not sure if they've outstayed a better horse as not looked that much....

The argument for Min winning would be down to having more class than his rivals IMO.
 
Imperial Commander outstaying the odds on Voy Por Ustedes would be the one that immediately springs to mind for me!

I'm not saying it doesn't happen.... but looking for the stayer in the race isn't proven either... (neither is a classy horse going up in trip)


As a general rule, wouldn't everybody want to be on the best horse in a race. We've seen proof Min does stay 2m3f and 2m4f now... so 1 extra furlong at a track where we've seen him put in a superb performance twice behind Altior, I don't think is crazy.
 
Haha, fair play Kev!

I think what it proves is this race can be won by either type. All comes down to the quality of the opposition on the day. If Shattered Love and Monalee go for Gold, Id fancy Min will have enough class to get him home, even if 2m5f may not be his optimum trip and he gets home on vapours.

In plenty of other era's he'd be the best 2 miler around and wouldn't even be looking at a step up in trip imo.
 
Yes, and I posted ALL the renewals....?

Un De Sceaux?

If Stayers win.... why didn't Don Cossack get the job done?

Biggest bet I ever had till that point was on the Don for that Ryanair. He was unlucky not to finish nearer as his mistakes (which he was prone to at the time in his career) were at the wrong time in the race and he was squeezed up badly in the last couple of fences I recall whilst staying on really well. If you watch the race again he was unlucky and showed how good he was subsequently to frank this.
Wether he'd have got to Uxizandre is another matter.

Uxizandre another example of a Mcmanus horse out of form that goes to Martinstown (for magic grass) and comes to cheltenham a different horse. He ran like he was on drugs that day and was Mccoys best chance of a winner in his last festival.
Binocular, Ivanovich Gorbatov to name a couple
Controversial I know, just my theory.
 
Quite easy to make an argument last year's was won by a horse that stays better than UDS. He did finish 1.25 Ls off the winner in the Lexus after all.

Vautour stayed 3 miles as did Dynaste...quite a few have stayed well?

The argument for Min winning would be down to having more class than his rivals IMO.

I assumed you've read none of my posts Jack, as my angle has been that last sentance at least 3 times :highly_amused:



and yes, a few have stayed well, a few also haven't been good enough despite staying well, like Don Cossack, Valsuer Lido, Road To Riches....



aaaaand, Un De Sceaux clearly didn't run to form last year, and if we're using Balko Des Flos as the benchmark, Min just throttled him!
 
If Charbel is a big player what does that make Politologue? Beat Charbel conceding 6 lbs. I can't see Politologue in the Gold Cup and Nicholls wont swerve Cheltenham with his best horse.
 
Biggest bet I ever had till that point was on the Don for that Ryanair. He was unlucky not to finish nearer as his mistakes (which he was prone to at the time in his career) were at the wrong time in the race and he was squeezed up badly in the last couple of fences I recall whilst staying on really well. If you watch the race again he was unlucky and showed how good he was subsequently to frank this.
Wether he'd have got to Uxizandre is another matter.

Uxizandre another example of a Mcmanus horse out of form that goes to Martinstown (for magic grass) and comes to cheltenham a different horse. He ran like he was on drugs that day and was Mccoys best chance of a winner in his last festival.
Binocular, Ivanovich Gorbatov to name a couple
Controversial I know, just my theory.

I do love playing devil's advocate but I completely agree with Don Cossack, was on myself that day. Robbed! :p Don't need to watch it back, etched in my memory haha.

Love a contrverstial theory.... Buveur D'air on the magic grass to put Samcro away?
 
If Charbel is a big player what does that make Politologue? Beat Charbel conceding 6 lbs. I can't see Politologue in the Gold Cup and Nicholls wont swerve Cheltenham with his best horse.

Does Politilogue's Cheltenham form not worry you? It's a notch below the best of his form.
 
If Charbel is a big player what does that make Politologue? Beat Charbel conceding 6 lbs. I can't see Politologue in the Gold Cup and Nicholls wont swerve Cheltenham with his best horse.

I think it's releative to their price.

Politilogue has a better chance than Charbel, but Charbel was 33/1 and looks to have improved since being beaten by Politilogue.

If Politigloue was 33/1 as well, I imagine everybody would prefer Politilogue to Charbel
 
I do love playing devil's advocate but I completely agree with Don Cossack, was on myself that day. Robbed! :p Don't need to watch it back, etched in my memory haha.

Love a contrverstial theory.... Buveur D'air on the magic grass to put Samcro away?

yes............
 
Quite easy to make an argument last year's was won by a horse that stays better than UDS. He did finish 1.25 Ls off the winner in the Lexus after all.

Vautour stayed 3 miles as did Dynaste...quite a few have stayed well?

The argument for Min winning would be down to having more class than his rivals IMO.[/QUOTE]

I assumed you've read none of my posts Jack, as my angle has been that last sentance at least 3 times :highly_amused:



and yes, a few have stayed well, a few also haven't been good enough despite staying well, like Don Cossack, Valsuer Lido, Road To Riches....



aaaaand, Un De Sceaux clearly didn't run to form last year, and if we're using Balko Des Flos as the benchmark, Min just throttled him!

Sorry nope i hadn't haha- UDS didn't run to form for me because over 2m5 on soft, he runs out of gas!

I can see the Min angle, and especially at a lot of your nice prices, but for me he's one i wouldn't be confident on come the day- and as i've missed any sort of price i am happy to make my angles vs him now.

Will jump, travel the best, hit 1.5 in running, and bottom out just after the last.