If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
We're looking to upgrade the 'hosting CPU' so I've set up a crowdfunding project.
I would love it if you could donate using the link below to access my project page. Any contribution large or small will be hugely appreciated. Thank you.
Kevloaf @ Fat Jockey
2 of 2<>
Fat Jockey Patrons
HELP US - Become a Patron - Fat Jockey is a horse racing community focused on all the big races in the UK and Ireland. We don't charge users but if you have found the site useful then any support towards the running costs is appreciated ... a small donation each month would be a huge contribution. Become a Patron!
The thing that winds me up is the morons that just don't care, and there's a fair percentage that just don't care!
I’d guess the majority of the ‘don’t care’ brigade are those who are young and therefore are low risk, is that fair ?
And then of course you have those who simply don’t believe, I’ll leave that there....
The media have their hands covered in blood here no question in my mind, they’ve continually hit us with the ‘under 30s are extremely low risk’ and that’s meant little consideration/respect for the pandemic is given by that generation..
Like most, I can't offer much other than anecdotal evidence, but I was a 'key worker' and based in the City Centre during lockdown 1.0, when at times it felt like I had an entire City Centre to myself. I've no axe to grind with any age group, but in that period it certainly wasn't the under 30's defying the rules, put it that way. We lost a family member to covid (well, so says the death cert) and my partner worked for months on a covid ward at the height of this when it was still a massive unknown and an incredibly worrying time. I've pestered her loads on all of this so that I feel i've got a good handle on what really is what and what is nonsense, from either side of the argument.
I don't feel as though the media have hit us with the u30's low risk thing, but even if they had, it's true, the statistics overwhelmingly say so. I live in a City that is incredibly popular for tourists and drinkers, it also has two universities. I've gone out at various points during all this and again, never felt at any point that the young are taking the piss. They've shown incredible restraint and in turn respect in my opinion, the Daily Mail and co will always find a handful of examples to the contrary.
From what i've seen generally, most people have followed advice as much as they can/can keep up with and those that take the piss don't fit any neat demographic. We've got enough on our plates without trying to play a generational blame game.
My job is recruiting for the education sector (having left recruiting for the hospitality sector during LD1), so I do rely on schools being open not to be furloughed myself, but with an open mind I can see why they've kept them open. Education is paramount.
However, I don't think that's what people are annoyed about, I think they're annoyed about the fact it's not being acknowledged or it's being ignored or glossed over. They could have openly said that they're aware the school system is going to have a negative impact on the R - and given there reasons as to WHY they've gone ahead leaving schools open (which would include the points you've made in one way or another). They could have been open and honest and said they're going to close hospitality to help out but blaming them or creating a focus on it, is a step to far and a smoke screen.
Wales and some secondary's here will be doing remote learning as they have a phased return... doesn't really address the issue IMO, but it's just impossible to know what to do.
Essentially, keeping schools open is for 'the future' and if you don't, you're fucking up childrens futures to some extent, however, keeping them open, means more people will die than if they closed them. You then have to balance the economic impact of the scenarios, including childcare, people not being able to work, furlough etc. Whichever choice is made, people will be upset, and their lives will be worse.
It's an awful time.
I agree with the vast majority of what you've said Kev, I have a few teachers in my friendship circle and despite the Daily Mail telling you they all just want to be at home, there's no place any of them would rather be than in their classrooms, regardless of the risks.
The only bit I disagree with Kev is the bit I've highlighted. If the government have to explain to people why they are leaving schools open, then I really give up any faith in humanity.
I agree with the points about not pointing the blame at hospitality, especially when the government itself gave us all a months worth of half price Pizza Hut.
Agree with the balancing act. People can criticise all they want, and the opposition can oppose as much as they want. It's easy to sit in our armchairs and tell someone they're doing it wrong until you have to step up and do it yourself. It's an unenviable job and regardless of whether I agree with the way its been handled, it's a job I have admiration for the PM (and any other PM for that matter) for doing.
We've got enough on our plates without trying to play a generational blame game.
I agree, but this thing has monopolised news channels for 10/11 months, the media on the whole broadcast facts which is where we learn about the subject.
You may have misunderstood the point I was making; the media continuously reported that under 30 year olds carry a negligible risk, my comment wasn’t aimed at irresponsible 28 year olds, I’m sure there are some but there are also irresponsible 58 year olds, the bigger issue comes from schools where no-one can expect your average10 year old to understand the complexities of virus spreading, but these 10 year olds (and 5yo and 15yo) go home and pass it onto family members who then go to work and pass it into colleagues who then pass it on etc etc etc.
Facts are well known, 96-98% of transmission come from schools, a fact this government chooses to ignore but is happy to destroy the businesses and lives of hundreds of thousands in industries that have never contributed to the spread...
I agree with the vast majority of what you've said Kev, I have a few teachers in my friendship circle and despite the Daily Mail telling you they all just want to be at home, there's no place any of them would rather be than in their classrooms, regardless of the risks.
The only bit I disagree with Kev is the bit I've highlighted. If the government have to explain to people why they are leaving schools open, then I really give up any faith in humanity.
I agree with the points about not pointing the blame at hospitality, especially when the government itself gave us all a months worth of half price Pizza Hut.
Agree with the balancing act. People can criticise all they want, and the opposition can oppose as much as they want. It's easy to sit in our armchairs and tell someone they're doing it wrong until you have to step up and do it yourself. It's an unenviable job and regardless of whether I agree with the way its been handled, it's a job I have admiration for the PM (and any other PM for that matter) for doing.
Yeah I see what you're saying, but do you think they could have come out and literally said something along the lines of.... "our childrens futures are more important than old/vulnerable people"?
That's the calculation they're having to make, and my point was, they should/could have acknowledged that....although typing this, I can see that is almost an impossible task.
It's so emotive that they just can't say it or admit it?
I agree, but this thing has monopolised news channels for 10/11 months, the media on the whole broadcast facts which is where we learn about the subject.
You may have misunderstood the point I was making; the media continuously reported that under 30 year olds carry a negligible risk, my comment wasn’t aimed at irresponsible 28 year olds, I’m sure there are some but there are also irresponsible 58 year olds, the bigger issue comes from schools where no-one can expect your average10 year old to understand the complexities of virus spreading, but these 10 year olds (and 5yo and 15yo) go home and pass it onto family members who then go to work and pass it into colleagues who then pass it on etc etc etc.
Facts are well known, 96-98% of transmission come from schools, a fact this government chooses to ignore but is happy to destroy the businesses and lives of hundreds of thousands in industries that have never contributed to the spread...
Why do you think the gov think keeping schools open is more important (to them) than anything else?
As you're saying, their actions are displaying that, but why do you think that is?
Agree with the balancing act. People can criticise all they want, and the opposition can oppose as much as they want. It's easy to sit in our armchairs and tell someone they're doing it wrong until you have to step up and do it yourself. It's an unenviable job and regardless of whether I agree with the way its been handled, it's a job I have admiration for the PM (and any other PM for that matter) for doing.
I try and avoid political talk but this sums up my thoughts so well.
Yeah I see what you're saying, but do you think they could have come out and literally said something along the lines of.... "our childrens futures are more important than old/vulnerable people"?
That's the calculation they're having to make, and my point was, they should/could have acknowledged that....although typing this, I can see that is almost an impossible task.
It's so emotive that they just can't say it or admit it?
I recall hearing someone prominent saying that schools remaining open is paramount. If a prominent cabinet minister came out on Andrew Marr tomorrow and said that "children's futures are more important than old/vulnerable people", there would be uproar and their resignation would be on the PM's desk by the time my beef is cooked.
I'm up for transparency, but some things just shouldn't need to be said and even if they had said that, enough people would be annoyed at that. “You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”
Why do you think the gov think keeping schools open is more important (to them) than anything else?
As you're saying, their actions are displaying that, but why do you think that is?
As others have said, education is crucial, and I have great sympathy for those in/entering exam year, my issue is more around the destruction of specific industries that are known to be operating safely rather than challenge why schools are still open.
Plenty of sports clubs professional and amateur will disappear, we’ll also likely see some racecourses die, and any number of pubs, restaurants, cinemas, theatres etc that might not return.
It’s laughable that no racecourse could be trusted to operate safely with reduced spectators between July and December when, incredibly, some if those racecourses hosted antique fayres and boot sales with unlimited attendees...
I recall hearing someone prominent saying that schools remaining open is paramount. If a prominent cabinet minister came out on Andrew Marr tomorrow and said that "children's futures are more important than old/vulnerable people", there would be uproar and their resignation would be on the PM's desk by the time my beef is cooked.
I'm up for transparency, but some things just shouldn't need to be said and even if they had said that, enough people would be annoyed at that. “You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”
As others have said, education is crucial, and I have great sympathy for those in/entering exam year, my issue is more around the destruction of specific industries that are known to be operating safely rather than challenge why schools are still open.
Plenty of sports clubs professional and amateur will disappear, we’ll also likely see some racecourses die, and any number of pubs, restaurants, cinemas, theatres etc that might not return.
It’s laughable that no racecourse could be trusted to operate safely with reduced spectators between July and December when, incredibly, some if those racecourses hosted antique fayres and boot sales with unlimited attendees...
Whilst we have a democracy we're unlikely to ever hear anyone prioritise hospitality and leisure over education. Too many people have children or value them to ever come out and publically say they'd sacrifice "the future" over the here and now.... so whilst I totally understand what you're saying, I don't know how a gov would counter it without shooting themselves in the face, let alone foot!
You may have misunderstood the point I was making; the media continuously reported that under 30 year olds carry a negligible risk, my comment wasn’t aimed at irresponsible 28 year olds,.
I don't want to get all Loafy, but you did say "that’s meant little consideration/respect for the pandemic is given by that generation..", which is an altogether different angle to the point you have since gone on to make.
You also go on to say "Facts are well known, 96-98% of transmission come from schools" - genuinely be interested to read up on this if you can provide links? I've seen nothing that comes close to tallying with such a claim.
Whilst we have a democracy we're unlikely to ever hear anyone prioritise hospitality and leisure over education. Too many people have children or value them to ever come out and publically say they'd sacrifice "the future" over the here and now.... so whilst I totally understand what you're saying, I don't know how a gov would counter it without shooting themselves in the face, let alone foot!
No winners, only losers in politics
Absolutely. Politics ain't beanbag!! (the missus throws things at me when I say that, what she can't read on here won't hurt her)
I don't want to get all Loafy, but you did say "that’s meant little consideration/respect for the pandemic is given by that generation..", which is an altogether different angle to the point you have since gone on to make.
I’ll acknowledge the use of the word generation was misleading but it was in response to the under 30s age group used by the media.
There are ignorant people in all generations/age groups sadly.
As for stats/proof I wouldn’t be capable of attaching any news article, I think Charlie stated a source for the 97% figure yesterday, I’m not sure which thread that would be on though...
The media have their hands covered in blood here no question in my mind, they’ve continually hit us with the ‘under 30s are extremely low risk’ and that’s meant little consideration/respect for the pandemic is given by that generation.
Couple that with this incompetent government failing to see that 98% of cases are transmitted through schools but they keep schools open and destroy leisure and hospitality industries...
Think that’s a bit unfair on my generation there.
Like in all generations, the majority of us have done as we’ve been asked. I spent 4 months at university from April to July without seeing a single person bar the two friends I lived with - the other side of the country from my family.
Whilst I don’t dispute the under 30s in general probably spread it more than a standard 50 year old (university campuses, schools, colleges, etc), it’s a bit unfair to say that it’s generally because of a lack of ’consideration/respect’.
Edit - And after all that.. I see it’s been covered by yourself and Jorvik after your post anyway so never mind
We process personal data about users of our site, through the use of cookies and other technologies, to deliver our services, personalize advertising, and to analyze site activity. We may share certain information about our users with our advertising and analytics partners. For additional details, refer to our Privacy Policy.
By clicking "I AGREE" below, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our personal data processing and cookie practices as described therein. You also acknowledge that this forum may be hosted outside your country and you consent to the collection, storage, and processing of your data in the country where this forum is hosted.
Tweet
Comment