2022 Championship Division

[Faugheen_Machine]

Yup. It's possible the entries this week have been some kind of smokescreen. I think we all know what the best plan would be, and Gordon does too because he's run it successfully several times. Run out the back in the X-County in November so he's had his run over fences and the handicapper can't touch him. Plus he gains experience on the XC course. Back for a hurdle as prep for the Festival. Win the XC, and then win the National. Dead easy and nailed on!

This is what I've been dreaming about for weeks

[Istabraq]

[FONT=Verdana][SIZE=14px]Galvin avoids winter ground, so it makes complete sense to be ready to run in October/November then be put away until after the Grand National Weights are announced.
(IGWT) In Gordon We Trust

I get that, and completely understand, my point was that any chase run could damage his mark so I’d prefer him to either run in hurdles or sit in his box until February, but I don’t own the horse and I’m sure there are some clever people hatching a plan…

[Lobos]

Yup. It's possible the entries this week have been some kind of smokescreen. I think we all know what the best plan would be, and Gordon does too because he's run it successfully several times. Run out the back in the X-County in November so he's had his run over fences and the handicapper can't touch him. Plus he gains experience on the XC course. Back for a hurdle as prep for the Festival. Win the XC, and then win the National. Dead easy and nailed on!

Cant see him spoiling Tigers swansong even if they have different owners. Gordon owes Tiger and Gigginstown a lot and will not spoil the party by throwing a spanner (Galvin) into the mix. Don't think Ronnie has ever had a XCC runner either. That's the Lobos theory anyway. With Easysland also a doubt...........all aboard the Tiger train once again.


Choo, Choo !

[Kautostar]

Cant see him spoiling Tigers swansong even if they have different owners. Gordon owes Tiger and Gigginstown a lot and will not spoil the party by throwing a spanner (Galvin) into the mix. Don't think Ronnie has ever had a XCC runner either. That's the Lobos theory anyway. With Easysland also a doubt...........all aboard the Tiger train once again.


Choo, Choo !

I don’t think Ronnie not owning a XC horse before would have any bearing on it tbh. There’s no reason why he wouldn’t want to win that race should Gordon choose to go down that route.

With regards to tiger he’s a year older and more regression likely, he could even be retired before the fez if he’s not firing. I wouldn’t want to be backing him before nrnb kicks in.

[Spectre]

Cant see him spoiling Tigers swansong even if they have different owners. Gordon owes Tiger and Gigginstown a lot and will not spoil the party by throwing a spanner (Galvin) into the mix. Don't think Ronnie has ever had a XCC runner either. That's the Lobos theory anyway. With Easysland also a doubt...........all aboard the Tiger train once again.


Choo, Choo !

I can, and I think he should:

1. Gigi aren't buying any horses anymore so he doesn't need to keep the Brothers Grimm happy.

2. Tiger Roll is at the veteran stage and may not win it anyway. He's likely to be regressing now.

3. Ronnie Bartlett will want a Festival winner, and his only chance will be Galvin.

4. Gordon needs owners to keep buying the best horses to replace the spending power of Gigi. Winning the XC wouldn't hurt that as part of him hopefully having multiple Festival winners.

5. Everyone knows how Gordon goes about winning the race including Bartlett.

6. Galvin is likely to be the best horse in the race if entered.

7. It's an easy way to manage his mark before the Grand National.

[Lobos]

I can, and I think he should:

1. Gigi aren't buying any horses anymore so he doesn't need to keep the Brothers Grimm happy.

2. Tiger Roll is at the veteran stage and may not win it anyway. He's likely to be regressing now.

3. Ronnie Bartlett will want a Festival winner, and his only chance will be Galvin.

4. Gordon needs owners to keep buying the best horses to replace the spending power of Gigi. Winning the XC wouldn't hurt that as part of him hopefully having multiple Festival winners.

5. Everyone knows how Gordon goes about winning the race including Bartlett.

6. Galvin is likely to be the best horse in the race if entered.

7. It's an easy way to manage his mark before the Grand National.

1. Very unfair. Without them he'd be nothing. He owes them every respect.

2. People said that last year and it was his most impressive win ever imo.
3. He'll want to win the GN over the XCC anyday. Why mess about training him for Banks races and potentially making him sulk.
4. Agree but he could send others that way.
5. Agree but it doesn't have to be with Galvin.
6. Questionable over the specialist Banks fences and also he'll still he behind Tiger in ratings maybe ?
7. He can do it easier ways than sending him down a completely different code of racing than what he's been used too. Normally, horses that have lost their appetite for racing are sent XCC as with Tiger. Galvin has no such issues.


It is not going to happen imo but, nothing wrong with 12/1 cash out after all that although I won't be partaking............. surprisingly

[Lobos]

Was looking through the big GC outsiders for something outside of the box and stumbled across Cloth Cap. Could he do a Synchronised for Jonjo??

[Dessie the great]

I have never seen horses divide opinion like CPS and PTKO.

First let's deal with Chacun. Undoubtedly a very talented individual. The argument that he has only beaten good horses and not superstars has some merit.

Defi was/is better over 2m4f and hasn't beaten much over 2m. An old Willie M horse in 2 English G1s and Polit when getting weight.

Min who hasn't won over 2m since Feb 2019

Notebook who isn't an open G1 horse

Fakir who needs longer than 2m

Allaho who needs further than 2m

Easily PTKO at Lep last Christmas but I thought PTKO receives an iffy ride and was coming on the back of an absolute gruelling at the Schloer. I think Chacun would beat her around Lep but think she shoild be a lot closer next time.


Onto PTKO. Im not sure she is getting the credit she deserves. Every race she wins can't be a bad race. Won an arkle where PTKO and FD pulled 20ls clear of the 3rd. Fakir has been 2nd in 2 G1s and won a G1 in open company.

The excuse being put forward for CPS defeat in the CC is that they went too slow. This wouldn't have suited PTKO on either. She isn't the fastest as we could see at Sandown on firm ground and a sprint wouldn't have suited her either. I don't think she jumped as well last year as her novice year either, made mistakes both times at Cheltenham and put in a horrible round at Sandown so room for improvement there. She should look after Chacun in a Champion chase again. C and D form, an improvement in her jumping, and natural improvement as only a 7 Yr old (same age as Shiskin) should see her better this season.


Shiskin is undoubtedly a potential superstar and this is backed up on the clock. But..... he has only beaten very average horses over fences so far in his career and hasn't beaten anything of the calibre PTKO or Chacun have. He has course form and is the most likely winner if transferring his times on the clock into open company. The wind op is a concern for me, why were they checking his wind coming in from the field?


Similar sentiments apply to Energumene. Very impressive on the clock but only beat average horses so far. Has to do it in open company. Doesn't have track form.

My summary
Shiskin worthy fav but shorter than he should be.
Energumene, Chacun and PTKO should all be about the same price imo. Nube Negra the only outsider I can see getting involved

[Spectre]

PTKO and Chacun do divide opinion, but they've made for a really enjoyable debate. I've really enjoyed reading how we interpret them in different ways.

I'm not overly concerned with Shishkin getting his wind done. If he makes a noise or there is any suspicion he's not clean winded, and he can still put those times up, then everyone watch out this season now it's been corrected!

Henderson is a bit like Nicholls in the respect that they tend to err on the side of caution and get a cauterization or a tie back, or even a hobday done, if they think there is even the smallest risk. They go out of their way to make sure their best horses are or stay clean winded. I suspect Mullins, Elliott, and De Bromhead do the same, but in Ireland there's no necessity to report it.

[Saxon Warrior]

PTKO and Chacun do divide opinion, but they've made for a really enjoyable debate. I've really enjoyed reading how we interpret them in different ways.

I'm not overly concerned with Shishkin getting his wind done. If he makes a noise or there is any suspicion he's not clean winded, and he can still put those times up, then everyone watch out this season now it's been corrected!

Henderson is a bit like Nicholls in the respect that they tend to err on the side of caution and get a cauterization or a tie back, or even a hobday done, if they think there is even the smallest risk. They go out of their way to make sure their best horses are or stay clean winded. I suspect Mullins, Elliott, and De Bromhead do the same, but in Ireland there's no necessity to report it.

It’s a big step forward to know about breathing ops, Ireland really do need to provide that information to the general public, it’s not a difficult change to make.

It may even lead to being a gateway into wider discussions about injuries and time for expected recovery, just like football clubs tell the general public when their stars are due to return and what their injuries are.

Racing could do well to follow this model, to bring a wider audience closer to the horses, and the sport.

[knockando]

Was looking through the big GC outsiders for something outside of the box and stumbled across Cloth Cap. Could he do a Synchronised for Jonjo??

I looked at Cloth Cap too but think given went off fave in National - they’ll likely be going down that route again for the big one over the Gold Cup would be my guess

[Istabraq]

I'm not overly concerned with Shishkin getting his wind done.

There are a number of different ‘ops’ that cab be performed, some less serious that others, I think it’s an old school thought process where you automatically assume it to be a big issue.
Some horses get their wind tweaked every season and you’re right that Hendo is one who is quick to send them under the knife.
This has been going on for years but only very recently have trainers had to disclose it, 2 years or so ?
I’m with you though, not a concern whatsoever…

[Winging The Last]

Pictures of the new huge Shishkin https://twitter.com/jess_stafford_/s...130680843?s=21

[Winging The Last]

Champs long term aim this season is the Gold Cup according to Hendo via Jess Stafford https://twitter.com/jess_stafford_/s...469862403?s=21

[Stormez]

Pictures of the new huge Shishkin https://twitter.com/jess_stafford_/s...130680843?s=21

Might not be very useful from a betting perspective but would be very interesting if they made the size of horses public knowledge at the start of the season.