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What to learn from Cheltenham 2018 (with 2019 in mind)

Great write up Kev and congratulations on another good festival - you have a brilliant record.

If I was in your boots I'd be increasing my stake to £25 a pt. I made the same change a couple of seasons ago and my profit has increased in line with my increase of stakes.

Thanks FM. Do you do the same pts for flat and NH - I assume so, but do you stake differently "overall"?

I've been lucky since 2015 in that I've not once been behind (first bet of 2015 was Ptit Zig at Kempton that won - and never been behind since) :triumphant: but Cheltenham is where I make the majority of my money so I don't want to effectively "wipe out" my bankroll or have any cash flow issues in ante post punting during the season - one of the reasons (I feel) I do well at Cheltenham is I would ALWAYS back a horse whenever I think its too big... I hardly ever miss out because I "couldn't afford" to place the bet... and there is a chance with £25 stake instead of £10 that could happen... .especially if I have a weekend where I miss completely...a £300 loss becomes £750 and that may affect me in the long run
 
Thanks for this Kev, excellent read.

I do a hell of a lot of similar things to yourself and only became successful at the festival when beginning to back multiple horses in races and using NRNB with over 60% of my bets for the week. Been going for 16 years and was pissing in the wind for the first ten years.

I've now had 6 consecutive profitable years ranging from 40-100% profit (don't keep exact records unfortunately) since adopting this approach. Which is essentially looking to get a profit on each race.

This year my learning points are as follows.

Reduce antepost bets (have said this last two years, but not managed it yet) - I only probably stake less than 10% antepost but my stats aren't great and I tend to shy away as I find it difficult (pyschologically) not getting a run. Added to that the NRNB market has always offered up plenty of value for me anyway.

Use forums for information and other ideas (especially this one). First time I've used this and it was a great help, and made a change from staring at oddschecker and watching stuff on youtube.

I think I'll use each way NRNB a lot more, I seem to have done it a little sporadically and looking back can't really see why, but I had some very good priced horses chinned, Glenloe 25-1, Rather Be 16-1, Mall Dini 16-1.

Use specials more- the nicholls one this year was very good (even though it scraped home). Only special i've ever really looked at prior to this year was the prestbury cup which i had my biggest ever bet on a couple of years ago (40pts) when they drew until Any Currency was disqualified weeks after. (blow was only softened as i backed any currency)

Leave the supreme alone for as long as possible.

Focus on the handicaps I think can be narrowed down (in the NRNB market), Close Brothers, Pertemps, Ultima, KIm Muir, to lesser extents the plate and fred winter.

Leave the County and Coral cup in particular until very near the day. The form comes from so many angles in these races it makes it almost impossible, whereas there are reasons I could give for the others being slightly easier puzzles to solve.

General golden rules I would advise for others (if they don't already)

Golden rule that everyone should follow until it changes, is apart from one or two races, whenever you look at a race, look at what Mullins has entered, Elliott has entered and Henderson has entered.

And for anyone that hasn't already got it (novices, for want of a better word) but can organise a reasonable bank roll to be available in January 2019 for the NRNB markets should ensure they have accounts with the following bookmakers.
Bet365
Skybet
Paddypower
William Hill
I would say they are the four most likely to continue to offer the earliest markets, and the top 3 generally have the best offers during the week also, without there offers I'm sure my profits would be less.

And finally, when it's just a 2-4 point bet on a 33-1 shot and your already in front for the week . don't get clever and cash it out, at worst just reduce your stake.
MOHAAYED.

Excellent stuff Quevega , and Kev's too , will add my two penneth worth soon. ( but not as detailed and informative as your's.):)
 
I think my big thing to learn from the last festival and it's something I didn't learn from the year before. Is don't read too much into trainers performances early in the festival. I got it into my head back in 17 after Douvan's injury, Melon being stuffed, both VVM & Limini being beat that Mullins was out of form, and didn't go in heavy on him on the Thursday despite, fancying Yorkhill, UDS & Let's Dance.

I did a similar thing this year with Gordon after Apples' Jades flop, his two fancied horses in the Novice handicap were pulled up, he'd a pretty poor Tuesday. It turned me off Samcro and a few more.

Probably my biggest mistake though was self doubt as I wasn't having a great week, when I really should have been. For example, I had been really talking up Farclas as the triumph winner before the festival, but having heard he was a maiden, said I would go with Mr Adjudicator instead.

I think that is a good rule if you can stick to it... hindsight obviously helps.

jono made an interesting point a year or so ago about momentum and positive runs, I agree with that for jockeys and although trainers can "run hot"... it is way too hard to factor that in to any value really in my opinion.

Surprised you didn't have a great week to be honest Folski, you certainly highlighted a few ante post big priced selections.

Are you a "back-on-the-day" kind of punter? (Obviously with your well thought out ideas and notes leading up to it?)
 
I will definitely try to be more selective this year , had a lot of non runners and horse in the wrong race . Any race market i
hear you say !. My holy grail is the big priced multiple , not easy with injured horses and multiple entries .
My best bets were early A/p bets and bets the week before and during the festival , so will try to be restrained
this Autumn .!. apart from the Obvious trials ,.
Agree with you Quvega , leave the supreme as long as possible,. And the handicaps and bumper probably till the
festival week. unless N.r.n.b.
Anyway , Had a Brilliant week at cheltenham this year . roll on the next./
 
I've been doing some statistical analysis of my book. I had a nightmare in 2017, and my outputs were

- Reducing my point stake back down to £5
- Focusing on one or two horses in a race, and not rebacking all the time
- A greater focus on singles over multiples
- Striking early on the ante post market - a big part of my success in the past
- Using free bets for multiples
- Going back to each way (I went win only in 2017 - each way would have meant I'd have broken even)

It mostly seemed to work

82.4 point profit on singles (of which a £20 bet on Samcro accounted for 44 of them!)
20 point loss on multiples - but here's the rub - due to using free bets for multiples, my average multiple stake was less than 1point, which hugely mitigated the risk

Some sickeners in there as well - Apple's Jade and Cause of Causes were the last legs in about 7 multis. Very different if either (or both!) won.

More importantly (and maybe it's just winners since I didn't have any till Thursday last year) a stricter approach meant I enjoyed the festival so much more this year. Definitely sticking to this!
 
Interesting stuff robith, one thing I wouldn't dismiss is multi's during the week, if you have the choice of bookies you can take advantage of the enhanced place terms and a trixie/yankee where you have 5/6/7 places in several races can pay dividends.
But what is crucial is learning year on year, you appear to do that well...
 
Interesting stuff robith, one thing I wouldn't dismiss is multi's during the week, if you have the choice of bookies you can take advantage of the enhanced place terms and a trixie/yankee where you have 5/6/7 places in several races can pay dividends.
But what is crucial is learning year on year, you appear to do that well...

Good point Ista, I absolutely love multiples, but I can get carried away - for EG, at least ten points of the multis loss was idiot accas I dropped on Thursday cos I'd missed the Samcro/PP/Altior train. in 2017 I didn't adequately cover Yorkhill, UDS and Let's Dance in singles and was let down by UKWIMH getting turned over is probably the best example. This year I'd have had solid singles on all of them (I only really had Yorkhill).

The main thing is, this year loads didn't come off at all, but they didn't cost me any money! But agree you need to be in it to win it
 
I guess you guys are specifically talking about the festival, but multiples in general are a bookie's favourite.

I try to stay away from them nowadays and focus on mostly singles.
 
I guess you guys are specifically talking about the festival, but multiples in general are a bookie's favourite.

I try to stay away from them nowadays and focus on mostly singles.

They are my only real hope of early retirement though Jack.

I do agree that most multiples favour the bookmakers given that you are usually multiplying up the over-round. I have it in my head ante post is different though.
 
I guess you guys are specifically talking about the festival, but multiples in general are a bookie's favourite.

I try to stay away from them nowadays and focus on mostly singles.

The beauty of using Free Bets on multiples...:encouragement:
 
I guess you guys are specifically talking about the festival, but multiples in general are a bookie's favourite.

I try to stay away from them nowadays and focus on mostly singles.

Virtually all my bets are L.15,L.31 or Patents , I think your probably right about the bookies liking them Jack,
But like Faugheen , I'm looking forward to the "one" dropping in and
early retirement :). But actually , they're generally pretty good to me ,
No big wins yet ,, but often money back , live to fight another day.
 
it only takes one freebe multi to dropin and ya laughing :triumphant:
 
I think that is a good rule if you can stick to it... hindsight obviously helps.

jono made an interesting point a year or so ago about momentum and positive runs, I agree with that for jockeys and although trainers can "run hot"... it is way too hard to factor that in to any value really in my opinion.

Surprised you didn't have a great week to be honest Folski, you certainly highlighted a few ante post big priced selections.

Are you a "back-on-the-day" kind of punter? (Obviously with your well thought out ideas and notes leading up to it?)

Sorry Kev, only saw this now, if I like something before a trial I will usually back it, I had Getabird at 20s last year as I really fancied him, still think he might be the 2nd best novice from last year but that's another thing.

I had a decent week but it should have been a fantastic week, had Monalee won the JLT instead of finishing 2nd in the RSA I would have had a lovely bet for the novice chases at 2/1 10/1 and 6/1 about Footpad, himself and PP. I had BBB at 33s as well and Rathvinden at 33s, but generally what I will do is do trebles on the day and try and click a few, one year I had Road to Riches 8/1, Martello Tower 14/1 and Killultagh Vic at 12/1 and had a right few pound on Coneygree for the RSA was a bad jump at the last away from 26k, wasn't all bad as the same day i had a 5er free bet on Peace and Co, Martello & KV for about 3k.

Last few years though I think I've beaten myself at Cheltenham, my selections on the day wouldn't have been the same as mine 2 weeks out and that's cost me a lot but we will live and learn. Can't wait for the proper season to start.
 
Two lessons I learnt that I seem to have stuck to for now are, firstly, leave the novice hurdles alone, I say I stuck to this one, but Annamix has found his way into a couple of speculative multi's but speculative is exactly what they are, little lay out for nice returns, so for that I feel I have stuck to for the most part. Secondly, and more importantly, IMO, I have used the 'any race' market a whole lot more. Thanks to you lot on here really, I mean I done a couple last season, but no where near as many as I already have on now, it we are only in September!!
 
Sorry Kev, only saw this now, if I like something before a trial I will usually back it, I had Getabird at 20s last year as I really fancied him, still think he might be the 2nd best novice from last year but that's another thing.

I had a decent week but it should have been a fantastic week, had Monalee won the JLT instead of finishing 2nd in the RSA I would have had a lovely bet for the novice chases at 2/1 10/1 and 6/1 about Footpad, himself and PP. I had BBB at 33s as well and Rathvinden at 33s, but generally what I will do is do trebles on the day and try and click a few, one year I had Road to Riches 8/1, Martello Tower 14/1 and Killultagh Vic at 12/1 and had a right few pound on Coneygree for the RSA was a bad jump at the last away from 26k, wasn't all bad as the same day i had a 5er free bet on Peace and Co, Martello & KV for about 3k.

Last few years though I think I've beaten myself at Cheltenham, my selections on the day wouldn't have been the same as mine 2 weeks out and that's cost me a lot but we will live and learn. Can't wait for the proper season to start.

Interesting. Some nice pick ups and I think you can definitely take a lot from being close to some 5 figure pick ups. I had a similar season last year (that I've alreayd mentioned elsewhere probably). Nothing quite as dramatic as a bad jump though.

I actually don't tend to bet much for the huge paydays, I'm very much chipping away with small wins consistantly (Cheltenham and the whole year) but if I ever am going to land some 5 figure returns it'll be at the festival, as I just wouldn't do it elsewhere... it is genuinly hard enough picking a few winners each day without getting them together! :)

WIll you make a concious effort to "stick to your guns" this year? Or will the same happen again do you think?
 
Thus far I've stuck with what I've learnt in that:

The Any Race market is a much better way to spend my hard earned this far out.
Too many points get wasted on horses not running in the races I had hoped them too.

To focus on horses trained by Mullins/Elliott/Henderson.
Won over half the races last year and whilst other trainers will have good horses, the trainers themselves may not have good records at the festival.

Use free bets on speculative multiples.
Didn't do any last year, see no better way to spend a free fiver etc..
 
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Interesting. Some nice pick ups and I think you can definitely take a lot from being close to some 5 figure pick ups. I had a similar season last year (that I've alreayd mentioned elsewhere probably). Nothing quite as dramatic as a bad jump though.

I actually don't tend to bet much for the huge paydays, I'm very much chipping away with small wins consistantly (Cheltenham and the whole year) but if I ever am going to land some 5 figure returns it'll be at the festival, as I just wouldn't do it elsewhere... it is genuinly hard enough picking a few winners each day without getting them together! :)

WIll you make a concious effort to "stick to your guns" this year? Or will the same happen again do you think?

The guns will be well and truly stuck to this year Kev, I'll have my selections first week in March and won't change one of them :)
 
The guns will be well and truly stuck to this year Kev, I'll have my selections first week in March and won't change one of them :)

I blame the ground for any last minute changes... got too downbeat on horses like Balko Des Flos and too excited by horses like First Flow!

Looking forward to some of your handicap cases again Folski, God I love this forum :triumphant:
 
'God I love this forum'

Me too, just wish i had the knowledge of you guys but learning all the time.

I feel a bit of a parasite allowing you lot to do the research and then me lumping on. Hoping to contribute more as soon as im confident that i know enough!

Keep up the good work

.......and 84 pages already on the '2019 Ante-Post bets !!
 
'God I love this forum'

Me too, just wish i had the knowledge of you guys but learning all the time.

I feel a bit of a parasite allowing you lot to do the research and then me lumping on. Hoping to contribute more as soon as im confident that i know enough!

Keep up the good work

.......and 84 pages already on the '2019 Ante-Post bets !!

I felt the same as you when I first joined. Some incredible insights on here from Kev, Faugheen, Istabraq, etc