Stayers Hurdle 2018

[Vautour]

This is quite frankly embarrassing.

After Cheltenham when he ran well up the hill v Movewiththetimes - "he's go the speed for 2 and the stamina for 3" having looked liked a 2 and a half miler.
Runs him at Sandown over 2 and then he immediately can only be a 3 miler having run no race.
Brings him back to Ascot probably far too soon in a 2 and a half mile where he only just loses against Benator who is I think about 5th in the betting for the Jlt and given his jumping and how quickly it came after Sandown was not the absolute worst - he says he must go RSA.
Now he's reverting to hurdles to look after him.

Completely mental! If he said it was because he can't jump and they have schooled him excessively with no improvement I could understand it but this just seems utterly clueless since he is still saying there is a chance to revert to fences!

 

[Scooby91]

Completely agree. Huge question marks over Tizzard after the season so far. I like the man and really liked his boldness in some of his decisions last year but he has so far had a shocker this year and you have to raise the question how he has handled the increase in top class horses in the yard - the first time he's had this many top class horses all at once. Questionable calls:

- The handling of Finians Oscar
- The handling of Vison des Flos (beat Hollowgraphic, Rapid Escape and Early Doors at Punchestown but was then thrown in the deep end in two grade 2 races rather than ease him in)
- Fox Norton - again another horse who has been chopping and changing between 2m-3m
- Public knocking of Bryan Cooper
- Thistlecrack - should never have rushed him back so soon after a tendon injury (many decent judges were pretty amazed when they thought he could be back for it, albeit he did and ran ok in 4th) - a softer recovery may have helped his longevity?

Willie Mullins is known for switching horses targets around and making some odd decisions, and Yorkhill still raises question marks how he could be considered a Champion Hurdler and a Gold Cup horses in the same season but Mullins has a track record for being proved right (Black Hercules for the JLT as a quick example) and it's impossible to knock him overall.

I've backed FO with WH for this race (boosted to 22/1). I'm not quite sure I fancy him for any race at this rate but the price will be gone by the morning. Plus he will either win / run well in the Cleeve to suggest he has a strong chance in this race or anything less then I cannot see them taking him to the festival, instead skipping it for Aintree and maybe Punchestwon again, so money back. I cannot in any way see a horse who has had 2 disappointing chase runs now, line up over hurdles on Trials day 6 weeks before the festival only to then switch back to fences again for either the JLT or the RSA at a trip over fences he has never ran over...that said based on Tizzard this season it appears logic may have gone out the window...:very_drunk:

If I was munir I'd be seriously tempted to run footpad in the jlt now. Or even petit mouchoir for giggi.
Looks an extremely weak race now.

 

[Scooby91]

This is quite frankly embarrassing.

After Cheltenham when he ran well up the hill v Movewiththetimes - "he's go the speed for 2 and the stamina for 3" having looked liked a 2 and a half miler.
Runs him at Sandown over 2 and then he immediately can only be a 3 miler having run no race.
Brings him back to Ascot probably far too soon in a 2 and a half mile where he only just loses against Benator who is I think about 5th in the betting for the Jlt and given his jumping and how quickly it came after Sandown was not the absolute worst - he says he must go RSA.
Now he's reverting to hurdles to look after him.

Completely mental! If he said it was because he can't jump and they have schooled him excessively with no improvement I could understand it but this just seems utterly clueless since he is still saying there is a chance to revert to fences!

Benatar will not be far away at all. Wouldn't be suorised at all if he won.

 

[Tenty]

Barcardys for this race?

In different start to his chasing career. Mullins short of staying hurdlers with concerns over Penhill and unfortunately no Nichols anymore.

 

[Can't Catch Me]

Barcardys for this race?

In different start to his chasing career. Mullins short of staying hurdlers with concerns over Penhill and unfortunately no Nichols anymore.

Think he gave Penhill a positive bulletin the other day.

 

[jono]

Penhill had a positive update from Mullins in Monday's RP...

penhill is back in training and is in great form.
His main aim is the Stayers Hurdle at Cheltenham and then he'll go onto the Punchestown Festival

 

[Scooby91]

Barcardys for this race?

In different start to his chasing career. Mullins short of staying hurdlers with concerns over Penhill and unfortunately no Nichols anymore.

Think it's unlikely but Every one will be considering jlt now. Monalee. The storyteller. Invitation only. Petit mouchoir. Benatar modus yanworth
I'd run monalee here for sure. Wouldn't be suprised one bit of he goes here.


***** I thought I was in the jlt thread :highly_amused:

 

[Can't Catch Me]

Think it's unlikely but Every one will be considering jlt now. Monalee. The storyteller. Invitation only. Petit mouchoir. Benatar modus yanworth
I'd run monalee here for sure. Wouldn't be suprised one bit of he goes here.


***** I thought I was in the jlt thread :highly_amused:

had me vexed then!

 

[robith]

Recall about a week or so ago I saw one of the Tizzards (Joe I think) claiming the form of Cue Card's 2nd at Haydock behind BDM had been seriously franked and I thought they were losing the plot.

Looks like it was just a starter

 

[Kevloaf]

I'm so frustrated with myself that I'll have ended up backing Finian's Oscar so many times for a horse that I didn't fancy AT ALL last season.

Somehow because Neon Wolf got injured I've ended up losing money on the Arkle project and despite hashing some potentially life changing savers in the JLT from pre "Arklegate" that now dead in the water!

I am going to check now and I've got a horrible feeling I've got nor staked on FO overall than any other horse.

I'll be really annoyed with myself if I've let that happen. At one stage I've convinced myself he's note talented than he is and its my biggest mistake of the season.

Tough wood, he seems to be the only one so far but I can't hide my disappointment. I've not been a fan of Tizzard EVER either, amateur operation thart seems to have got lucky! Similar to FO this season, I seem to have managed to convince myself they we're too class.

 

[Robbante]

Most of my money is tied up with him any race this year, but I’m convinced that he has no chance in the stayers. To me his trip is the intermediate one this year, his best performances have been over that trip, and there’s just no reason to rush to step him up to 3 miles. His performance last time out against Benatar was really encouraging, especially as it came fairly soon after being taken off his feet at Sandown. Benatar will go close in the JLT and is potentially a top chaser, he gave him 5lbs and arguably would have won if coming into that race fresh. They should have taken heed of that improved performance and put him away for a bit, sharpened up his jumping, and aimed him at no other race than the JLT. He is good enough to win that race I’m sure... whether he is good enough to win it after going 3 miles at pace against some of the best staying hurdlers around I would highly doubt. Tizzard is ruining the horse

 

[Faugheen_Machine]

L'ami Serge is going chasing as a prep run for the Stayers hurdle?!

It looks to me like the owners see Wholestone as their number one and will have the option to run LS elsewhere if he impresses over fences. I can't think of any other reason as to why they'd do this.

 

[Al Ferof]

L'ami Serge is going chasing as a prep run for the Stayers hurdle?!

It looks to me like the owners see Wholestone as their number one and will have the option to run LS elsewhere if he impresses over fences. I can't think of any other reason as to why they'd do this.

Agreed. L’ami would never win a stayers, has all the talent but not the resolve.

 

[Scooby91]

L'ami Serge is going chasing as a prep run for the Stayers hurdle?!

It looks to me like the owners see Wholestone as their number one and will have the option to run LS elsewhere if he impresses over fences. I can't think of any other reason as to why they'd do this.

Very unlikely wholestone is well held. Lami serge there no 1 no doubt, whether he wins the stayers is a whole other matter.

A lesser race over a shorter trio in different conditions last time dosent make wholestome suddenly a live chance for the stayers . Lami serge would beat him held together

 

[jono]

I wonder what Mr Potts would have made of the way Tizzard has handled Finians Oscar and co this year. He was never one to stick with something that wasn't quite working...

 

[Adam93]

First time poster long time reader but decided to take the plunge, a market iv really been struggling with so far but first ante on today with FO still available NRNB at 22s with WH seem too big? No idea with Tizzard is doing lately.

Will be very interested to see who turns up in the Cleeve as an indicator; Beer Goggles, UNWIMH, FO?

 

[KingSprinterSacre]

Racingpost member content is all currently available on the site without needing to login lads.
Finians Oscar pricewised

Ante-post advice

Finian's Oscar
Stayers' Hurdle
1pt each-way at 16-1 with bet365 (NRNB)




Finian's Oscar

3:30 Cheltenham


There was a time when the Sun Bets Stayers’ Hurdle was the poor relation of the championship races at the Cheltenham Festival, which was probably the main reason why horses like Baracouda, Inglis Drever and Big Buck’s could win the race over and over again.

However, that’s not the case anymore as, for the most part, the race has been transformed into a much more competitive and open betting contest.

That was certainly the case 12 months ago and there are plenty who can be fancied at this stage.

Sam Spinner, who looked really good at Ascot last time, is one of them but he’s too short a price now and has no Cheltenham form. He stays and jumps and has more improvement in him, but he will be facing a different set of rivals to those he beat at Ascot.

Last year’s Coral Cup winner Supasundae has the added advantage of being proven at the track, and on good ground. He ran as well as ever at Leopardstown over Christmas when trying to give two mares lots of weight, and he looks sure to go well.

However, a bit like Sam Spinner, his price has been contracting almost daily and I’m not sure there is much room for him to shorten between now and the big day.

Gordon Elliott has insisted Apple’s Jade won’t run in this and, while Penhill looked good in the Albert Bartlett last year, that wasn’t the strongest of Cheltenham races.

Consequently, the value lies with some of the Grade 1-winning hurdlers who might well switch disciplines having struggled over fences recently.

Big Buck’s thrived when reverting to hurdles and the most high-profile candidate on that score would be Yanworth, who won the Stayers’ Hurdle at Aintree and is extremely talented.

JP McManus doesn’t seem to have has a cast-iron candidate with Unowhatimeanharry not in top form, so Yanworth could easily switch back.

However, I still wonder about his attitude and he did jump all right when winning the Dipper over fences last time, so he might easily stay chasing.

In contrast, Bacardys and Finian’s Oscar have lost confidence over fences and will be much better served over hurdles.

Bacardys has won a point-to-point, but he has been unconvincing in his two novice chases and came down at Leopardstown over Christmas. He beat Finian’s Oscar narrowly in a Grade 1 at Punchestown last season and stays really well, so it would be no surprise if he made his presence felt.




Finian's Oscar: could be a force to reckon with back over hurdles and upped to three miles



Finian's Oscar: could be a force to reckon with back over hurdles and upped to three miles

Mark Cranham


However, it's Finian's Oscar who interests me most as I thought he was just about the best staying novice hurdler around last season, despite things not going perfectly.

Colin Tizzard’s six-year-old would have beaten Bacardys but for losing momentum at the last at Punchestown, and the engine has looked as good as ever over fences.

He sprinted up the Cheltenham hill in November to beat Movewiththetimes without jumping that well, but has got progressively worse since.

The minimum trip at Sandown in the Henry VIII Novices’ Chase was clearly not his thing, but he also lost many lengths when failing to take a cut at his fences when run out of it by Benatar at Ascot last time.

He did really well to be beaten so narrowly and there is no doubt he is going to be much better back over hurdles, and upped to three miles.

The plan is to do a Thistlecrack and go for the Cleeve Hurdle before the Stayers’, so it makes sense to take the non-runner no bet option with him because if he runs badly there he won’t be seen in March.

Of the rest, The New One could go well upped to three miles, but he was well beaten at Sandown when stepped up in trip last season, and more dangerous is L’Ami Serge, who has any amount of ability but might run over fences next.

 

[ryanh97]

Welcome Adam - I think I saw UNWIMH is going straight for this

 

[Adam93]

Welcome Adam - I think I saw UNWIMH is going straight for this

Thanks, just reading that myself now, a shame as would have been a good yard stick. Still an interesting trial.

 

[Innoko]

Tizzard's problem is he doesn't think.

He gives all these interviews saying a horse will go here or a horse will go there. Yet by the time he's got home he's probably forgotten what he has actually said.

One minute its the JLT, next the Arkle, next the RSA and now the Stayers.

Someone who we perceived to be a 'punters friend' has turned out to be quite the opposite.

If this were Mullins he would have been hung out with the washing by now.

The Potts family will move their horses over to Ireland if they know what's good for them. They can't be impressed by this circus.