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Stayers Hurdle 2018

Tenty said:
I think it is a general reluctance to pick one of his own but I would also be surprised if Sam Spinner got beat.
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Fair to say that Sam Spinner has impressed this season but I couldn't apply certainty status to any horse who has yet to visit Gloucestershire.
He's clearly improved for the step up but, like every pretender, needs to prove he travels on quicker ground at a pace never experienced before on a course with unique dips and undulations, if (or when) they run in the Cleeve and he gags up then I'll review that statement....
 
Istabraq said:
Fair to say that Sam Spinner has impressed this season but I couldn't apply certainty status to any horse who has yet to visit Gloucestershire.
He's clearly improved for the step up but, like every pretender, needs to prove he travels on quicker ground at a pace never experienced before on a course with unique dips and undulations, if (or when) they run in the Cleeve and he gags up then I'll review that statement....
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He goes straight there.
 
Scooby91 said:
He goes straight there.
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That would be a huge concern for me if I was a backer.
The trainer has 30 odd NH wins in 17 seasons and I can't recall a single runner of his seen at the festival, does he know what it takes to win a championship race at Cheltenham ?
I appreciate that until they break their duck that question applies to them all but 17 years of training NH horses at an average of 2 winners a year, there's enough doubt there for me.
I genuinely hope this thing is the next star because the division needs one, but I'm not convinced...
 
Istabraq said:
That would be a huge concern for me if I was a backer.
The trainer has 30 odd NH wins in 17 seasons and I can't recall a single runner of his seen at the festival, does he know what it takes to win a championship race at Cheltenham ?
I appreciate that until they break their duck that question applies to them all but 17 years of training NH horses at an average of 2 winners a year, there's enough doubt there for me.
I genuinely hope this thing is the next star because the division needs one, but I'm not convinced...
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Dosent make a difference to me personally who the trainer is if the horse is good enough he's good enough.
I know mullins henderson elliot etc.. have the most winners but they have far more ammo and the plus of having the contacts and reccomendations and the owners to pay the money.
 
According to the racing post Finians Oscar could be reverting to hurdles

Tizzard is quoted saying this is the aim.

20/1 or 12/1 nrnb
 
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The clowning about they’ve done with that horse is something else
 
Anyone know what Pricewise went for in this race?

Hard to glean from oddschecker. There look to be bits of money for Finian’s Oscar. Change of plan?
 
"We're going to switch back to hurdles for the rest of the season, with the aim being to run in the Stayers' Hurdle," said trainer Colin Tizzard. "He jumps fences adequately but I don't think he's that brave.

"If he doesn't nearly win the Cleeve we might go back to the RSA or JLT – and it might not hurt him to have a run over hurdles before returning to fences in any case – but the Cleeve and the Stayers' is our view and what will probably happen.

"I need to look after him. I don't want to run him in a big race over fences at Cheltenham when there's a possibility he could shake them up in the Stayers' Hurdle. On last season's hurdles form you'd have to think he could be a major contender as well."

Tizzard, who said he plans to enter only Finian's Oscar in the Stayers', added: "I'm sure at the moment all trainers are keeping all their options open.

"I don't think for one minute the Stayers' will be an easy race, but there's also no reason why any number of horses won't switch back from fences to have a go at it. Once a horse goes chasing he doesn't have to stay chasing for the rest of his life."
 
Faugheen_Machine said:
"We're going to switch back to hurdles for the rest of the season, with the aim being to run in the Stayers' Hurdle," said trainer Colin Tizzard. "He jumps fences adequately but I don't think he's that brave.

"If he doesn't nearly win the Cleeve we might go back to the RSA or JLT – and it might not hurt him to have a run over hurdles before returning to fences in any case – but the Cleeve and the Stayers' is our view and what will probably happen.

"I need to look after him. I don't want to run him in a big race over fences at Cheltenham when there's a possibility he could shake them up in the Stayers' Hurdle. On last season's hurdles form you'd have to think he could be a major contender as well."

Tizzard, who said he plans to enter only Finian's Oscar in the Stayers', added: "I'm sure at the moment all trainers are keeping all their options open.

"I don't think for one minute the Stayers' will be an easy race, but there's also no reason why any number of horses won't switch back from fences to have a go at it. Once a horse goes chasing he doesn't have to stay chasing for the rest of his life."
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‘I need to look after him’. ‘If he doesn’t nearly win the cleeve we might go back RSA or JLT’

The guy is a clown. Why not try him over cross country fences as well
 
I said at the time i feared they were ruining the horse by running him in that 2m chase. They have really messed him about this season
 
Robbante said:
‘I need to look after him’. ‘If he doesn’t nearly win the cleeve we might go back RSA or JLT’

The guy is a clown. Why not try him over cross country fences as well
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I rated tizzard last year but I think his campaigning of horses has been awful this year. He has some really strange ways of looking at things.

Finians dosent even want 3 miles over hurdles for a start we have seen against bacardys what will happen . Hes gone from 2m chasing to now thinking hes a 3 mile hurdler. You either run him in the jlt / rsa and you could come back for the aintree hurdle if there was an issue. How dumb is he going to look if benatar goes close in the jlt
 
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Scooby91 said:
I rated tizzard last year but I think his campaigning of horses has been awful this year. He has some really strange ways of looking at things.
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No finer example of how he’s campaigned Finians and Vision Des Flos. He just seems out of his depth, maybe he was blessed with top horses at their peak last year. Now he’s been given a crop of good youngsters he doesn’t seem to have a clue. Slate House another example really, his planning seems really poor
 
Scooby91 said:
I rated tizzard last year but I think his campaigning of horses has been awful this year. He has some really strange ways of looking at things.

Finians dosent even want 3 miles over hurdles for a start we have seen against bacardys what will happen . Hes gone from 2m chasing to now thinking hes a 3 mile hurdler. You either run him in the jlt / rsa and you could come back for the aintree hurdle if there was an issue. How dumb is he going to look if benatar goes close in the jlt
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Couldn’t agree more. I think his performance last time out was decent, I rate Benatar who won’t be far off in the JLT. The JLT was the race for Finians this year and he should have been campaigned accordingly. Even now I think he’d have a top chance if going there
 
What a bizarre decision! Really making themselves look like they haven't a clue what they are doing.
 
Robbante said:
Couldn’t agree more. I think his performance last time out was decent, I rate Benatar who won’t be far off in the JLT. The JLT was the race for Finians this year and he should have been campaigned accordingly. Even now I think he’d have a top chance if going there
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I like tizzard as a person and a character but I dont understand his decision making. I did admire his bold campaigning but hes gone too far doing it with the young crop. Hes far from "looking after them"
 
Scooby91 said:
I like tizzard as a person and a character but I dont understand his decision making. I did admire his bold campaigning but hes gone too far doing it with the young crop. Hes far from "looking after them"
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If I was JP then Empreinte Reconce would be the first and last horse I’d send Tizzard. She should have hosed up on debut as well and was well beaten
 
Scooby91 said:
I rated tizzard last year but I think his campaigning of horses has been awful this year. He has some really strange ways of looking at things.

Finians dosent even want 3 miles over hurdles for a start we have seen against bacardys what will happen . Hes gone from 2m chasing to now thinking hes a 3 mile hurdler. You either run him in the jlt / rsa and you could come back for the aintree hurdle if there was an issue. How dumb is he going to look if benatar goes close in the jlt
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Completely agree. Huge question marks over Tizzard after the season so far. I like the man and really liked his boldness in some of his decisions last year but he has so far had a shocker this year and you have to raise the question how he has handled the increase in top class horses in the yard - the first time he's had this many top class horses all at once. Questionable calls:

- The handling of Finians Oscar
- The handling of Vison des Flos (beat Hollowgraphic, Rapid Escape and Early Doors at Punchestown but was then thrown in the deep end in two grade 2 races :confused: rather than ease him in)
- Fox Norton - again another horse who has been chopping and changing between 2m-3m
- Public knocking of Bryan Cooper
- Thistlecrack - should never have rushed him back so soon after a tendon injury (many decent judges were pretty amazed when they thought he could be back for it, albeit he did and ran ok in 4th) - a softer recovery may have helped his longevity?

Willie Mullins is known for switching horses targets around and making some odd decisions, and Yorkhill still raises question marks how he could be considered a Champion Hurdler and a Gold Cup horses in the same season but Mullins has a track record for being proved right (Black Hercules for the JLT as a quick example) and it's impossible to knock him overall.

I've backed FO with WH for this race (boosted to 22/1). I'm not quite sure I fancy him for any race at this rate but the price will be gone by the morning. Plus he will either win / run well in the Cleeve to suggest he has a strong chance in this race or anything less then I cannot see them taking him to the festival, instead skipping it for Aintree and maybe Punchestwon again, so money back. I cannot in any way see a horse who has had 2 disappointing chase runs now, line up over hurdles on Trials day 6 weeks before the festival only to then switch back to fences again for either the JLT or the RSA at a trip over fences he has never ran over...that said based on Tizzard this season it appears logic may have gone out the window...:very_drunk::confused:
 
Can’t see him doing anything in the the cleeve. Happy to be proved wrong as I’d like to see him shine but I’m not convinced he wants 3 miles over hurdles, or that he’s up to that level yet. After the debacle over 2 miles they should have put him away at home, gradually built up his confidence again over fences and gone for a warm up over 2m 4 in Feb before taking in the JLT. Instead they wheeled him out soon after, and are now throwing him over hurdles at the top level over a distance he’s never run before. Then they’ll maybe switch him back to fences again for the festival. Just a shambles
 
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