jack1092
Member
Not sure about the ideal race but i still wouldn't rule her out for it with Cheltenham being more suited to her anyway..
Agree with Scooby tho that 33s is huge for GC too.
-
HELP US - Become a Patron - Fat Jockey is a horse racing community focused on all the big races in the UK and Ireland. We don't charge users but if you have found the site useful then any support towards the running costs is appreciated ... a small donation each month would be a huge contribution. Become a Patron!
Ryanair 2019
- Thread starter jono
- Start date
Not sure about the ideal race but i still wouldn't rule her out for it with Cheltenham being more suited to her anyway..
Agree with Scooby tho that 33s is huge for GC too.
jack1092
Member
Any horse that runs against Altior will always find one to good. Even his politologue form where he was beat by a nose in a race he ran in as an after thought, looks very good now.
I know what angle you're coming from there... it's the reason I've not fancied Min until this season...
... but here is my shortlist of horses I'd be confident would beat Min over 2m5f in the Ryanair
Might Bite - classier, with a front running ride like he had in the Kaura Star or RSA I don't believe any horse bar Altior would catch him. Won't run.
Altior - best horse in training, already proven better than Min and more likely on visuals to appreciate the step up in trip. Won't run.
Footpad - Although Footpad hasn't hit Min's level yet, I think if they met this season Footpad would be fav and is a bit classier. This may not end up being the case, but I'd lean that way. Owners surely take on the QMCC as the Arkle winner ..... OR GOLD CUP!
That is it though, they're the only horses I consider are BETTER horses than Min that could run in this race.
Stamina, ground, preperation and a whole host of other factors would obviously bring others in to the mix .... like Monalee, Un De Sceaux (who probably deserves to be in the bit above to be honest), Shattered Love, Waiting Paitently, Polotilogue, Charbel, even Fox Norton et al - they all would have chances on the day, and Min is in the same class as all of those in terms of this race for me... lots can change between now and then, but I don't think you can say Min will bump into a classier horse on the day. One too good? WEll only if things fell right for the other horses. He deserves to be where he is on the day.
Hurricane fly
Fat Jockey Patreon Est. March 2022
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2017
- Messages
- 4,813
- Reaction score
- 846
- Points
- 83
I could see Footpad being given a Vautour style career
Aka
Ryanair this year, King George then GoldCup the following year
Aka
Ryanair this year, King George then GoldCup the following year
Maybe, I'm not ruling it out. Look, if Footpad runs here, he probably wins and I'd fancy him over Min in any race they ran in (probably)
Footpad is one of the first horses I'll look at NRNB for this race. If he's an "each way on the day" kinda price (like 5/1) NRNB I'd have a pretty large bet. At least 5 pts e/w...
I just assume they'd put him shorter, and I wouldn't back him now to find out.
Min would be the fastest horse in the Ryanair. I'm still not convinced it finds much off the bridle an extra furlong up the hill will test its stamina. Can't knock the bet though.
Until he proves it I suppose that'll always be there.
I thought his 'battling' qualities were there for all to see though today, having to switch and beat a horse up the inside?
I have full confidence that Ruby will ride him and use that pace to win the race, very similarly to how he won it with Un De Sceaux.
I'm not expecting it to be a strong or deep race. I genuinly believe he'll be the top rated horse going in to it, and he wopn't be out of the places regardless.
I added Min for this race at 12/1 as he jumped the last. I really don't think Min gets the credit he deserves and has fallen victim to being in the shadow of Altior through most of his career, as it's fair to say every horse in training would do? If things had worked out differently Buveur D'Air could have stayed over fences, not won 2 champion hurdles and been in the shadow of Altior which days a lot.
Looking through his career to date...
- Bolted up in his 2 hurdles preps for the Festival.
- Then ran 2nd to Altior in that Supreme. Without Altior, he would have won what would (even without Altior) look a very good Supreme. Apparently had a back issue during the race too.
- Again bolted up in his 2 chase runs leading up to an Arkle bid. Unfortunately injury ruled him out.
- Second season chasing - one his seasonal debut at a canter. His next run was his first blemish?? On the face of it yes absolutely...but race tactics were a big aspect that day to his detriment but even so, Simply Ned can put in a good performance here and there, as he showed this year running Sceau Royal close in the Schloer Chase. So disappointing, sure but a few excuses on the day. Next run though he well and truly turned the tables beating Simply Ned by 12 lengths at Leopardstown.
- In the Champion Chase looked the winner until Altior got going. Was 11 lengths ahead of the rest. Brilliant run.
- Now here's where his stock takes a few more dents on paper at least. 11/10 fav to beat Politilogue at Aintree. A horse he beat by 16 lengths at Cheltenham. Travelled all over the winner that day but lost out be a neck. He pulled and was keen throughout which didn't help his course being upped in trip. It's easy to think of Politilogue as a horse not quite up there. Defeats at Cheltenham usually force a perception that way having finished 20, 10 and 23 lengths back in his 3 completed runs there. But take that track out, a track that clearly doesn't work for the horse and he's won 7 of his 9 completed runs (would have won at Aintree when falling over the last) over fences. The only horses to beat him were Waiting Patiently who received weight that day and Altior. He too is a good horse who if we were talking of a different track then would be up there as an even better proposition for this race. Min's 4th at the Punchestown festival was clearly a race too far and a pure throw at the trainers title running only 11 days after Aintree. Ignore.
- And today he won the John Durkan, over the middle distance. Keen again still but he's that type of horse and it would always be exaggerated on his seasonal debut. Can't knock todays run at all.
You can't take it as literal as this but just say you took out Altior from the division and those runs, he's won a brilliant renewal of the Supreme and won a Champion Chase by 11 lengths.
He's no superstar but he's a very very good horse, right up there with the best 2m- 2m4 chasers (take out Altior and now to a lesser extent Douvan). He's suspect to a few below par runs, as can be seen with defeats to Simply Ned and to a degree Politologue but on his day he's as good as they come for me.
I like the Ryanair, have a lot of time for the race (in the right circumstances) but you don't get absolute superstars running in this race. Vautour was in my top 3 horses of all time. Adored the horse and he produced arguably one/some of the best runs at the festival ever. But he too could throw in the odd poor show. Beaten by Clarcam and God's Own. Un de Sceaux - a warrior of a horse with a record almost any horse would envy - lost to Fox Norton and Balko des Flos.
You can pick holes on Min, but those defeats for me have excuses to varying degree, and at this level of racehorse, there will be a defeat or two as they just cannot perform race after race like an Altior. Min is the standard setter on what he has done for sure imo
Looking through his career to date...
- Bolted up in his 2 hurdles preps for the Festival.
- Then ran 2nd to Altior in that Supreme. Without Altior, he would have won what would (even without Altior) look a very good Supreme. Apparently had a back issue during the race too.
- Again bolted up in his 2 chase runs leading up to an Arkle bid. Unfortunately injury ruled him out.
- Second season chasing - one his seasonal debut at a canter. His next run was his first blemish?? On the face of it yes absolutely...but race tactics were a big aspect that day to his detriment but even so, Simply Ned can put in a good performance here and there, as he showed this year running Sceau Royal close in the Schloer Chase. So disappointing, sure but a few excuses on the day. Next run though he well and truly turned the tables beating Simply Ned by 12 lengths at Leopardstown.
- In the Champion Chase looked the winner until Altior got going. Was 11 lengths ahead of the rest. Brilliant run.
- Now here's where his stock takes a few more dents on paper at least. 11/10 fav to beat Politilogue at Aintree. A horse he beat by 16 lengths at Cheltenham. Travelled all over the winner that day but lost out be a neck. He pulled and was keen throughout which didn't help his course being upped in trip. It's easy to think of Politilogue as a horse not quite up there. Defeats at Cheltenham usually force a perception that way having finished 20, 10 and 23 lengths back in his 3 completed runs there. But take that track out, a track that clearly doesn't work for the horse and he's won 7 of his 9 completed runs (would have won at Aintree when falling over the last) over fences. The only horses to beat him were Waiting Patiently who received weight that day and Altior. He too is a good horse who if we were talking of a different track then would be up there as an even better proposition for this race. Min's 4th at the Punchestown festival was clearly a race too far and a pure throw at the trainers title running only 11 days after Aintree. Ignore.
- And today he won the John Durkan, over the middle distance. Keen again still but he's that type of horse and it would always be exaggerated on his seasonal debut. Can't knock todays run at all.
You can't take it as literal as this but just say you took out Altior from the division and those runs, he's won a brilliant renewal of the Supreme and won a Champion Chase by 11 lengths.
He's no superstar but he's a very very good horse, right up there with the best 2m- 2m4 chasers (take out Altior and now to a lesser extent Douvan). He's suspect to a few below par runs, as can be seen with defeats to Simply Ned and to a degree Politologue but on his day he's as good as they come for me.
I like the Ryanair, have a lot of time for the race (in the right circumstances) but you don't get absolute superstars running in this race. Vautour was in my top 3 horses of all time. Adored the horse and he produced arguably one/some of the best runs at the festival ever. But he too could throw in the odd poor show. Beaten by Clarcam and God's Own. Un de Sceaux - a warrior of a horse with a record almost any horse would envy - lost to Fox Norton and Balko des Flos.
You can pick holes on Min, but those defeats for me have excuses to varying degree, and at this level of racehorse, there will be a defeat or two as they just cannot perform race after race like an Altior. Min is the standard setter on what he has done for sure imo
Last edited:
He looks ungainly under pressure. Watch the replay after the last, head goes up in the air at one point. Not sure what happened there.
He was keen enough today as well. Ruby said he was struggling to settle him. For me its a 2 miler.
Maybe he is, but so is Un De Sceaux.
Look, you're going to be able to take him on at a short price, and everything is price related... I wouldn''t lay him at his current price though!
Punchestown wasn't even a disappointment for min. Was team tactics. They had MIN in the punchestown champion hurdle where he very much was an intended runner should they have needed him in the trainers title race they just hunted him round for a 1 2 3.
jack1092
Member
I would doubt he'd have even ran at Punchestown if it weren't for the trainer's title. Two runs in March + April....i will probably take him on come March as well but can see the appeal.
Hurricane fly
Fat Jockey Patreon Est. March 2022
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2017
- Messages
- 4,813
- Reaction score
- 846
- Points
- 83
I thought the Trainers championship turned Punchestown into a bit of a joke to be honest, horses chucked into anything, some running twice in 4 days just to try and get some place money. As a result I pretty much discount it form wise aswell
Innoko
Previous Lurker
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2017
- Messages
- 1,034
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 0
After Cheltenham I take any form with a lunch of salt.
You very some Aintree specialists (or horses that are better suited to flatter tracks) that perform well and different horses come out of festival races and are varied in their success ...
By Punchestown I've pretty much switched off to any if it as form for next year.
It's too hard to guess what's 'peaking' and what's 'over the top'
You very some Aintree specialists (or horses that are better suited to flatter tracks) that perform well and different horses come out of festival races and are varied in their success ...
By Punchestown I've pretty much switched off to any if it as form for next year.
It's too hard to guess what's 'peaking' and what's 'over the top'
charlie
Fat Jockey Patron (est. March 2021)
For me Min is an out and out 2 miler. Were it not for the beast that is Altior then Min would already have a supreme and champion chase under his belt, and (god forbid) if Altior missed Cheltenham, then Min would 100% go champion chase. If he ends up here, then I can see him being outstayed up the hill. Ruby often gives the impression that he's holding on to a hell of a lot more horse than he actually has under him, and I can see Min coming down the hill looking like an absolute good thing turning in, Ruby motionless, then gets outstayed.
I'll be suprised if he's bigger than 5/2 on the day. He's the leading contender no doubt. And is be almost certain he'll go here. They've put it out there from a very early date. They wanted to switch him or douvan last year but learned the ramications with vautour. This Time they've laid it out from early.
Last edited: