Mares Hurdle 2020

[Humble Pie]

Cos Willie don't own her that's why.

As a HUGE BDD fan I’m amused by all this supposition , Willie wants to win races , do I think he’s influenced by increased prize money by changing races ?

Do you think he is ?

BDD is capable of winning 3/4 races at the Festival IMO , is Honeysuckle?

Personally I’d like to see the young pretender take on the BEST and that’s Benie in the Mares

I’ve huge respect for Honeysuckle and may the best horse win , so please can we refrain from what if ‘ Benie gets injured ‘
Thanks Kev :encouragement:

 

[Quevega]

Willie is definitely influenced by Prize Money.

 

[Kevloaf]

I said Paisley Park, not Benie Des Dieux.


Despite my massive influence on this planet, I don't have the ability to type a horses name and have any impact on their well being at all either


If I did, I wouldn't use it wisely.

 

[Kevloaf]

Willie is definitely influenced by Prize Money.

...in trying to win the Irish Trainers Title...


I think he's more interested in number of festival winners, than UK prize money. Wouldn't be loads between the two... which is sort of the point you're making, as most people seem to dismiss the prize money completely, but it must be a very large factor.

 

[Humble Pie]

I said Paisley Park, not Benie Des Dieux.


Despite my massive influence on this planet, I don't have the ability to type a horses name and have any impact on their well being at all either


If I did, I wouldn't use it wisely.

My bad , speed reading

 

[Middle_Of_March]

Where does everyone think they’ll go?

I fully expect Benie to win the mares and I reckon Honeysuckle goes champion hurdle

 

[Craigy14]

I have to agree with Philg on this one, BDD has looked a beast over 3m in her last 2 runs and I’d be amazed if they dropped to 2miles seen as she has barely ran over the distance, not at all since coming over here other than a 2m chase.

If they were to go anywhere surely the stayers would be the race and I think that’s only if something happens to pp.

Annie power had ran a lot more over shorter distances in her career so clearly had the speed for 2m so I don’t think we can compare the 2 to willie sending her to the champion other than connections. She was also outstayed in the stayers which proved that. Then theres quevega who I’m sure we all thought could have probably won a stayers but willie would avoid big bucks and take the mares which was an easier option.

Prize money will influence it a bit but I don’t think as much as winners (in Britain) especially at Cheltenham for willie. I get it’s not his decision but I mentioned couple pages back about it probably being his idea to supplement Cilaos Emery given the weakness of the race so for him to therefore know he was supplementing BDD would be a bit of a low blow imo. I think it is all rr fuelled and rightfully as he is the owner. I don’t think she’d win over 2m personally but hopefully next week we know our fate.

 

[DenmanSacre]

If I were Honeysuckle's connections, I wouldn't skip this race just because of BDD. I don't think 2m4 is BDD's best trip, if you look at BDD's Cheltenham runs she doesn't appear to show her best form compared to her runs at Punchestown and I think we have a bit of recency bias with BDD - she was impressive over 3m at Gowran and Honeysuckle was less than impressive at the DRF. However, Honeysuckle's Hatton Grace victory was as good, for me, as BDD's Gowran win.

First time up Honeysuckle annihilated Easy Game, who hasn't let down that form (albeit over fences).

NRNB BDD is 8/11 compared to the 6/4 for Honeysuckle. I think if they both lined up in this, it should be closer.

I'm hoping we get Honeysuckle in this race just so we have the race we all thought would happen at the start of the season.

 

[Kevloaf]

Has honeysuckle actually got any good form?

Beaten Bacardys easily?
Scraped home against Darver Star and Petit Mou ?

I'd expect Benie to beat Bacardys easily and I don't think she'd struggle to beat PM or DS.

She's got to improve on what she's shown so far (which she could)

 

[Quevega]

I have to agree with Philg on this one, BDD has looked a beast over 3m in her last 2 runs and I’d be amazed if they dropped to 2miles seen as she has barely ran over the distance, not at all since coming over here other than a 2m chase.

If they were to go anywhere surely the stayers would be the race and I think that’s only if something happens to pp.

Annie power had ran a lot more over shorter distances in her career so clearly had the speed for 2m so I don’t think we can compare the 2 to willie sending her to the champion other than connections. She was also outstayed in the stayers which proved that. Then theres quevega who I’m sure we all thought could have probably won a stayers but willie would avoid big bucks and take the mares which was an easier option.

Prize money will influence it a bit but I don’t think as much as winners (in Britain) especially at Cheltenham for willie. I get it’s not his decision but I mentioned couple pages back about it probably being his idea to supplement Cilaos Emery given the weakness of the race so for him to therefore know he was supplementing BDD would be a bit of a low blow imo. I think it is all rr fuelled and rightfully as he is the owner. I don’t think she’d win over 2m personally but hopefully next week we know our fate.

Who'd beat her (BDD) ? - and have you backed them ?
and nothing else.

 

[DenmanSacre]

Has honeysuckle actually got any good form?

Beaten Bacardys easily?
Scraped home against Darver Star and Petit Mou ?

I'd expect Benie to beat Bacardys easily and I don't think she'd struggle to beat PM or DS.

She's got to improve on what she's shown so far (which she could)

You could say the same for BDD over 2m4. Her best form is over 3m.

Over 2m4 BDD has beat Midnight Tour (with Apples Jade behind), Augusta Kate (with Apples Jade behind) and Stormy Ireland.

Honeysuckle has beaten Elfile, Bacardys (with Apples Jade behind) and Easy Game over 2m4.

Id say the horses Honeysuckle has beaten over 2m4 are stronger than BDD.

I do think BDD will win this race (Honeysuckle or not) but I'd like her to actually have a threat in this race and beating Honeysuckle over her best trip would be a notable scalp.

 

[Craigy14]

Who'd beat her (BDD) ? - and have you backed them ?
and nothing else.

I reckon epatante purely on the basis she’s a 2miler and reckon she’d have the speed to beat BDD.

I’m not sure how many if any others would but on the flip side do you reckon she’d have the speed for 2miles?

I’ve only backed sharjah in the current field mate, race is a mess so have wisely left it alone :highly_amused: would have been all over a saldier 100% had he not been injured but that’s life.

 

[Quevega]

I reckon epatante purely on the basis she’s a 2miler and reckon she’d have the speed to beat BDD.

I’m not sure how many if any others would but on the flip side do you reckon she’d have the speed for 2miles?

I’ve only backed sharjah in the current field mate, race is a mess so have wisely left it alone :highly_amused: would have been all over a saldier 100% had he not been injured but that’s life.

IMO she's Definitely got the speed for 2 miles, she was faster than espoir d'allen last year 3rd last to jumping/falling last (most crucial speed point in both races).

However, I was also a big believer in apples jade having speed also (most of the same people who doubt BDD doubted her too), and whilst she won the Irish Champion by 16 lengths, It obviously ended badly. :highly_amused:
The money I'd have won if Apple's had ran to early season form and BDD had stood up :highly_amused:

 

[DenmanSacre]

IMO she's Definitely got the speed for 2 miles, she was faster than espoir d'allen last year 3rd last to jumping/falling last (most crucial speed point in both races).

However, I was also a big believer in apples jade having speed also (most of the same people who doubt BDD doubted her too), and whilst she won the Irish Champion by 16 lengths, It obviously ended badly. :highly_amused:
The money I'd have won if Apple's had ran to early season form and BDD had stood up :highly_amused:

The supreme was also faster than the CH for the same section of the race. The CH had a quick early to mid race pace (4s quicker by the 3rd flight) and so you would expect the Mares race, with a slow early pace, to he quicker towards the end.

The overall time of the Mares was fairly disappointing (as was the previous year's).

 

[charlie]

The supreme was also faster than the CH for the same section of the race. The CH had a quick early to mid race pace (4s quicker by the 3rd flight) and so you would expect the Mares race, with a slow early pace, to he quicker towards the end.

The overall time of the Mares was fairly disappointing (as was the previous year's).

Was gonna say this. Willie will go for the easiest option which is here.

 

[Quevega]

The supreme was also faster than the CH for the same section of the race. The CH had a quick early to mid race pace (4s quicker by the 3rd flight) and so you would expect the Mares race, with a slow early pace, to he quicker towards the end.

The overall time of the Mares was fairly disappointing (as was the previous year's).

It proves, she can run at pace though when required.
Same folk doubted Annie Power, and she did the same section faster in the mares she fell in vs that years champion.
That downhill section and the rise to the last is the most crucial part of the race and it's where most get found out.
Some get out paced and run on again (generally staying types)

Funnily enough if you watch BDD mares victory you'd say she'd have no chance at 2 miles.
But you would also have said the same after seeing apples jade mares victory.

It will depend as you've intimated on how the overall pace went in the specific race, but she is clearly the best horse and has gears.
Epatante would be the chief danger.

 

[Kevloaf]

You could say the same for BDD over 2m4. Her best form is over 3m.

Over 2m4 BDD has beat Midnight Tour (with Apples Jade behind), Augusta Kate (with Apples Jade behind) and Stormy Ireland.

Honeysuckle has beaten Elfile, Bacardys (with Apples Jade behind) and Easy Game over 2m4.

Id say the horses Honeysuckle has beaten over 2m4 are stronger than BDD.

I do think BDD will win this race (Honeysuckle or not) but I'd like her to actually have a threat in this race and beating Honeysuckle over her best trip would be a notable scalp.

I don't think you could.

She won the Mares G1 at the festival and depending on how you feel she ran in last years when falling at the last, I'd say that form looks a lot stronger than anything Honeysuckle has ever achieved over 2m4f?

If you don't think she'd have beaten Roksana in that race, then fair enough....

 

[DenmanSacre]

It would be interesting if BDD did go and whether the rest decided the way to beat her would be for a slow first half then a sprint, instead of getting into a slog with BDD.

Of the horses that are going to run in the Champion Hurdle, on good to soft, I would fancy Epatante and Sharjah (when he can be arsed) to beat her. Saldier also would if he was fit.

I don't see anything wrong with going for the mares if it's a decent race. I do think she should take on the stayers in the 3m at Punchestown and then go on to Auteuil again for the French Champion Hurdle.

L'Autonomie is running tomorrow and it would be interesting if she carried on as she did in the Autumn if she were to run against BDD in the future.

 

[Quevega]

It would be interesting if BDD did go and whether the rest decided the way to beat her would be for a slow first half then a sprint, instead of getting into a slog with BDD.

Of the horses that are going to run in the Champion Hurdle, on good to soft, I would fancy Epatante and Sharjah (when he can be arsed) to beat her. Saldier also would if he was fit.

I don't see anything wrong with going for the mares if it's a decent race. I do think she should take on the stayers in the 3m at Punchestown and then go on to Auteuil again for the French Champion Hurdle.

L'Autonomie is running tomorrow and it would be interesting if she carried on as she did in the Autumn if she were to run against BDD in the future.

I think Willie exactly wants this to happen.
Mares, stayers Punchestown and then the French Race.

This will be his argument against any suggestions Ricci may have.
He will suggest this is the best way to ensure winning all three targets.

I'd tell him to bollocks myself and enter in the champion hurdle, as all too often long term plans go tits up.
You takes your chances when you gets em.

 

[DenmanSacre]

I don't think you could.

She won the Mares G1 at the festival and depending on how you feel she ran in last years when falling at the last, I'd say that form looks a lot stronger than anything Honeysuckle has ever achieved over 2m4f?

If you don't think she'd have beaten Roksana in that race, then fair enough....

She would have beat Roksana.

Her best form over 3m is clear of Honeysuckle. I just don't think 8/11 is value if Honeysuckle turns up here.

BDD is in a quite a few of my multiples and from that perspective, I'd prefer Honeysuckle not to turn up. From a racing perspective, I want Honeysuckle in here so BDD can put up a high mark over the intermediate trip.