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General Chat

Runragged said:
Because in November and December there is already a Cross Country Handicap Chase over a very similar trip. The XC at the Festival was the only one in this country which wasn't a handicap. Therefore it gave a chance for the top XC horses to compete and see who is the best. By making it another handicap takes that away from what should be a Championship Festival. Carrying 11st 10lb against horses carrying 10st is a different assignment to everyone carrying 11st 7lb.

Yes, the race has become a bit of a farce in recent years with regards competitiveness but why should we deny the horses and trainer the chance to show what their horse can do best in this sphere on the biggest stage?
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I’m definitely in the minority here but I actually enjoyed the last 5 or so renewals of the xc when it turned into almost a veterans chase for horses no longer good enough to place in a gold cup. I was looking forward to minella indo/galvin/delta work clash last season before it was abandoned. I’m not sure that sort of horse will even run now off top weight. They’ll probably head straight to the GN resulting in a poor bunch of handicappers taking each other on in a competitive but piss poor field. Tiger roll brought attention back to this race and now I feel it will head the same way as the November/December xc chases where nobody even remembers the winner.
 
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Runragged said:
Because in November and December there is already a Cross Country Handicap Chase over a very similar trip. The XC at the Festival was the only one in this country which wasn't a handicap. Therefore it gave a chance for the top XC horses to compete and see who is the best. By making it another handicap takes that away from what should be a Championship Festival. Carrying 11st 10lb against horses carrying 10st is a different assignment to everyone carrying 11st 7lb.

Yes, the race has become a bit of a farce in recent years with regards competitiveness but why should we deny the horses and trainer the chance to show what their horse can do best in this sphere on the biggest stage?
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It's a different assignment because it's a level playing field.

It can't be right that one stable wins the race every year by 20 lengths plus. After also being competitive and winning and placing in graded races within the same season.

The Cross country race was never meant for horses of the class that have been winning in recent times, which is why the one or two that did were so far ahead of their peers in the same category.

It had become a Gigginstown/Gordon Elliot benefit race.
Even the French have gradually stopped bothering.
The race has been fortunate to actually attract runners in the numbers it has, because they have been playing for third place at best and massively outclassed for the most part.

The fact it was the only XC conditions race in the UK is not a reason to keep it.
It's a specialist race that was not designed for a minority of elite horses to crush inferior horses.
And the fact it is now a handicap does not exclude the better/elite horses running in the race anyway.
They just won't have it as easy.

Conflated made the Ryanair a better race this season and Galvin, Conflated and Tiger Roll would all have enhanced the Ryanair or Gold cup races.
 
Kautostar said:
I’m definitely in the minority here but I actually enjoyed the last 5 or so renewals of the xc when it turned into almost a veterans chase for horses no longer good enough to place in a gold cup. I was looking forward to minella indo/galvin/delta work clash last season before it was abandoned. I’m not sure that sort of horse will even run now off top weight. They’ll probably head straight to the GN resulting in a poor bunch of handicappers taking each other on in a competitive but piss poor field. Tiger roll brought attention back to this race and now I feel it will head the same way as the November/December xc chases where nobody even remembers the winner.
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Enda Bolger, Martin Keighley, Phillip Hobbs and David Cottin will all be plotting a route to the festival now if Cottin is allowed near his stables.
 
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Kautostar said:
I’m definitely in the minority here but I actually enjoyed the last 5 or so renewals of the xc when it turned into almost a veterans chase for horses no longer good enough to place in a gold cup. I was looking forward to minella indo/galvin/delta work clash last season before it was abandoned. I’m not sure that sort of horse will even run now off top weight. They’ll probably head straight to the GN resulting in a poor bunch of handicappers taking each other on in a competitive but piss poor field. Tiger roll brought attention back to this race and now I feel it will head the same way as the November/December xc chases where nobody even remembers the winner.
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I see this angle and this years race was shaping up nicely (you only have to look at the National result) but only if they all made the race. And match races are not really what we want too often.
Recent renewals were fortunate in that we always had at least 2 big hitters in the race, but like I've said previously this had to happen otherwise we'd have been looking at odd on shots every year.
You're one stone bruise away from a shit show every year.

I also understand that we might now have a lower standard of racehorse competing in the races going forward but at least as a handicap it will be more competitive.
I suppose we can't have it all ways.
And using the National as an example, why would these types not run off top weight ? They were all carrying big weights (11 stone plus) around aintree and came 2nd 3rd and 4th. In a higher quality field than any XC renewal will ever produce.
So any trainer who refuses to race on this reasoning is just being a bell end.

After all, it's the fucking cross country anyway, who cares ?:highly_amused:
It's not even a proper race.:devilish:
 
Quevega said:
It's a different assignment because it's a level playing field.

It can't be right that one stable wins the race every year by 20 lengths plus. After also being competitive and winning and placing in graded races within the same season.

The Cross country race was never meant for horses of the class that have been winning in recent times, which is why the one or two that did were so far ahead of their peers in the same category.

It had become a Gigginstown/Gordon Elliot benefit race.
Even the French have gradually stopped bothering.
The race has been fortunate to actually attract runners in the numbers it has, because they have been playing for third place at best and massively outclassed for the most part.

The fact it was the only XC conditions race in the UK is not a reason to keep it.
It's a specialist race that was not designed for a minority of elite horses to crush inferior horses.
And the fact it is now a handicap does not exclude the better/elite horses running in the race anyway.
They just won't have it as easy.

Conflated made the Ryanair a better race this season and Galvin, Conflated and Tiger Roll would all have enhanced the Ryanair or Gold cup races.
Click to expand...

Why not make it a penalty system then like they have in the Mares Chase? It is a shame to deny horses who excel in the Cross Country sphere their chance to show their superiority just once a year. Instead they will be plotted up running below par all through the season just so they can turn up at Cheltenham and carry as little weight as possible. If we are going to be like this then we might as well just scrap the Cross Country from the whole schedule.
 
Fouroverthrutwo said:
I don't think that's correct Exar Essay!

Have a butchers at this and let me know if I'm wrong please! :boxing:

https://www.facebook.com/TheJockeyC...festival-racing-changes-2025/509388285359025/
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The segment on handicaps do you mean? I only watched that bit as I assumed that’s what you were referring to. If so, it refers to open handicaps on the screen whilst they are discussing the changes.

And the website states as follows: https://ibb.co/TKGb6HS

I’m definitely reading it as 3 runs for a novice handicap chase. But I’ve a habit of being wrong … ask my wife.
 
Killiney said:
I have had all my NHC bets (including free bets) returned bar those on the Echange
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I cashed a couple , but still have 2 with P.P. , So will wait till they start refunding .
 
After all, it's the fucking cross country anyway, who cares ?:highly_amused:
It's not even a proper race.:devilish:​

It's going to mean different things to different people. I think it's just going to be time for a pint after the Champion Chase, like it was when a load of handicappers ran in it years ago. :barbershop_quartet_member:
 
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Exar Essay said:
The segment on handicaps do you mean? I only watched that bit as I assumed that’s what you were referring to. If so, it refers to open handicaps on the screen whilst they are discussing the changes.

And the website states as follows: https://ibb.co/TKGb6HS

I’m definitely reading it as 3 runs for a novice handicap chase. But I’ve a habit of being wrong … ask my wife.
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You're right Exar Essay my apologies.
 
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archie said:
I'd absolutely keep drink away from trackside or the bookies. Apart from the mutts who think it's smart to throw a £7 pint at a £300k thoroughbred, people dodging around carrying a pint, looking for a price and colliding with a muppet whose nose is blocked by white powder and is glued to his iphone is a recipe for carnage.
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I see both sides here; of course we don't want to see a Euro/World Cup scenario where pints are launched into the air and horses and punters get drenched, but for me part of the problem at the course in terms of moving around is that groups land at 10,30am plot up at a bar and don;t move until they're scraped up and thrown out at 7pm, though I think this is more about the average fan that is attracted to the festival rather than a problem created by the course.
I'm prepared to see how this one plays out but if all the jackets are in the dry cleaners come Thursday evening I may be a little more vocal.

Saxon Warrior kindly forwarded an e-mail he received from the course which broke down all changes, plenty of initiatives for the punter, haven't heard the member mentioned anywhere....
 
Quevega said:
After all, it's the fucking cross country anyway, who cares ?:highly_amused:
It's not even a proper race.:devilish:
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This is the point like. Most didn't care when it was a handicap and most won't care again now. For a few years people did actually care though, because there was runners they cared about.

And those horses don't have realistic alternatives at the festival. In comparison to the other races that have become handicaps. All the other changes I can get on board with, as attempts to make other races better.

It'll be a shit show again now. One where I'll happily be one of those plotted up at the bar for :biggrin-new:
 
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Do we not think that all these 160 horses will still turn up in the XCC ? If that happens then it won't resemble a Handicap at all.
 
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Lobos said:
Do we not think that all these 160 horses will still turn up in the XCC ? If that happens then it won't resemble a Handicap at all.
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I though this too, but then we've known this race has become a prep for the Grand National for a long time, which suggests it has no place at the Festival ?
I've always been a fan of the race, they encouraged spectators to head out to the XC course which was always a great experience, they've now said they don't want that so spectators are detached from the action creating a divide that didn't previously exist.
They can't irrigate the course, it often rides too quick and when the rain comes it floods. it's been cancelled and moved multiple times in recent years, perhaps the time has come to shunt this to April...
 
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Does anyone know if Jodie Standing is doing her point-to-point recruits book this season? Swear it's usually out by now but nothing on the website - still just 2023/24 and not sure she's promoted anything regarding a 2024/25 edition.
 
Views on Aurora Vega? She was minded quite well last season and it was pretty common knowledge early(ish) on that she wouldn't be aimed at Cheltenham. Being a mare in bumpers it's completely understandable but now hurdling i would like to think the Mares Novices' Hurdle would be the target. Kientzheim, Junta Marvel, Maughreen and Venusienne all also on the radar though so Willie looks pretty stacked on the young mares. Bit of an impossible part of the Mullins puzzle to unpick for me though not through want of trying. Junta Marvel has an injury to overcome. Maughreen will 100% be aimed here but can't help wonder if Willie would just throw a raft of them in if all good enough or hold some back for Mares Bumpers or Mares Hurdles elsewhere. I know nothing about Kientzheim or Venusienne other than JP has bought Kientzheim so she could certainly be aimed here. Very tricky but i am trying to find value against Maughreen. I can't back her at 3/1. That's just the Mullins charge.

Echoing Silence is at the top of my list and in light of Spectre's mid week video, closely followed by Gale Mahler and then Diva Luna not in Closutton
 
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