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Cheltenham Gold Cup 2020

If Altior wins on Saturday do we have a new Gold Cup favourite? Given how the bookies seem to react nowadays.

There is nothing in his breeding to suggest he'll be staying 3m, which is why I have only got involved with free bets on him.
 
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Even staying 3m won’t make him competitive in a Gold Cup for me CoD, that gets him to the bottom of the steepest hill in racing.
The best trip for Altior is probably the Ryanair but it’s not a championship race and carries nowhere near the prestige as one, so I’m sure he’ll drop back to 2m for a third Champion Chase.
Of course bookmakers need no excuse to shorten a horse so yes, a dominant win over Cyrname and Altior probably finds himself around 5/1 fav for a race he won’t compete in...
 
I mentioned this a few weeks ago.
And whilst I understand that there will be a temptation to go for Gold, if the King George is won.
I still think they wouldn't bother.
They would have proved his class at 3 miles and there would be no need to take that extra step, if a third Champion Chase is there for the taking.
The one hope you've got as a Gold cup backer and he does go on to win the King George is that Chacun Pour Soi looks fucking awesome on his reappearance.

I think backing Altior for the Gold cup is not a good play.
 
quevega said:
I mentioned this a few weeks ago.
And whilst I understand that there will be a temptation to go for Gold, if the King George is won.
I still think they wouldn't bother.
They would have proved his class at 3 miles and there would be no need to take that extra step, if a third Champion Chase is there for the taking.
The one hope you've got as a Gold cup backer and he does go on to win the King George is that Chacun Pour Soi looks fucking awesome on his reappearance.

I think backing Altior for the Gold cup is not a good play.
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If Altior were to win a King George then it will be the manner in which he does it that will dictate their next move IMO. If he does it very impressively and looks comfortable over 3m and he comes out of the race well, then I see no scenario but a Gold Cup run because nothing else would make any sense. Connections aren't deviating him from a 2 mile division he's dominated just to prove he stays 3 miles and then come back to 2, would be pointless. If he won the King George in a Might Bite fashion, i.e., leaving more questions to be asked than answered about staying further than 3m, then I can easily see them dropping back to a QMCC and not risking it.

Re CPS, he could reappear looking like the next Masterminded and it wouldn't factor one iota into Hendo's decision making process as to whether or not Altior goes QMCC.
 
Not sure if I mentioned this but managed to get 33/1 on Altior to do the KG and GC double with PP if anyone fancies it, had to ring up for it though and a trader gave me the price.
 
charlie said:
If Altior were to win a King George then it will be the manner in which he does it that will dictate their next move IMO. If he does it very impressively and looks comfortable over 3m and he comes out of the race well, then I see no scenario but a Gold Cup run because nothing else would make any sense. Connections aren't deviating him from a 2 mile division he's dominated just to prove he stays 3 miles and then come back to 2, would be pointless. If he won the King George in a Might Bite fashion, i.e., leaving more questions to be asked than answered about staying further than 3m, then I can easily see them dropping back to a QMCC and not risking it.

Re CPS, he could reappear looking like the next Masterminded and it wouldn't factor one iota into Hendo's decision making process as to whether or not Altior goes QMCC.
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It's not pointless because the King George is a very Prestigious race. More so than the 2 mile grade ones available in the run up to Cheltenham. So it would serve it's purpose of showing his class at a different trip and win a better race than he's already won.

And he would factor CPS performance into any decision 100%. All trainers consider opposition (if they have a realistic race choice available). If the GC is out of the question then I see your point. And I understand why this horse need not be concerned about any opposition. But it would be a consideration (at least one iota) should all the ifs and buts happen.
 
It does seem pretty clear that Henderson would want Altior to run in the QMCC regardless.

For GC backers (which for me is only as part of the KG/GC double as he can't win the GC without winning a KG...) then we're relying on the owner getting her way... and she seems pretty sporting.


I want him to do it, so I can start a thread debating whether he is better than Kauto Star
 
quevega said:
It's not pointless because the King George is a very Prestigious race. More so than the 2 mile grade ones available in the run up to Cheltenham. So it would serve it's purpose of showing his class at a different trip and win a better race than he's already won.

And he would factor CPS performance into any decision 100%. All trainers consider opposition (if they have a realistic race choice available). If the GC is out of the question then I see your point. And I understand why this horse need not be concerned about any opposition. But it would be a consideration (at least one iota) should all the ifs and buts happen.
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I am not saying the King George is pointless, and of course it's very prestigious, but the end game with a step up is not winning a King George, it's winning a Gold Cup. Nothing the trainer or owner have said to date leaves me in any doubt that's the case. They have to think about the season with a view to how they train him. Nicky has said they will bypass the Tingle Creek so they can train him differently and teach him to settle to make sure he handles the step up. That's not something that happens overnight or quickly, it will be a work in progress. If that effort and risk pays off with a good King George win then going back down to 2 miles to win a race he's already won twice would be utterly pointless with the Gold Cup potentially in their sights. That's the way I see it.

I get your point re opposition considerations, but if the step up doesn't work and/or happen I see no scenario whereby Nicky factors in opposition in his decision making process not to send Altior to a QMCC. Factor in can only mean to send or not send in that context. Even if CPS looked like the second coming on his seasonal reappearance can you imagine Nicky calling Patricia and saying ''crikey my good woman, this Chacun person looks rather good doesn't he, I think you may be winning Michael's money next year - I think he'd dominate our boy the way I intend to dominate you later''. Would never happen.
 
charlie said:
I am not saying the King George is pointless, and of course it's very prestigious, but the end game with a step up is not winning a King George, it's winning a Gold Cup. Nothing the trainer or owner have said to date leaves me in any doubt that's the case. They have to think about the season with a view to how they train him. Nicky has said they will bypass the Tingle Creek so they can train him differently and teach him to settle to make sure he handles the step up. That's not something that happens overnight or quickly, it will be a work in progress. If that effort and risk pays off with a good King George win then going back down to 2 miles to win a race he's already won twice would be utterly pointless with the Gold Cup potentially in their sights. That's the way I see it.

I get your point re opposition considerations, but if the step up doesn't work and/or happen I see no scenario whereby Nicky factors in opposition in his decision making process not to send Altior to a QMCC. Factor in can only mean to send or not send in that context. Even if CPS looked like the second coming on his seasonal reappearance can you imagine Nicky calling Patricia and saying ''crikey my good woman, this Chacun person looks rather good doesn't he, I think you may be winning Michael's money next year - I think he'd dominate our boy the way I intend to dominate you later''. Would never happen.
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They've barely mentioned the Gold Cup, only that it would have to be considered IF they won the King George.
I think that's where we disagree, IMO the end game for this little exercise is the King George.

I think we agree on the last point as that's pretty much what I said/meant
 
quevega said:
They've barely mentioned the Gold Cup, only that it would have to be considered IF they won the King George.
I think that's where we disagree, IMO the end game for this little exercise is the King George.

I think we agree on the last point as that's pretty much what I said/meant
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Yeh fair play. Time will tell.
 
Altior v Cyrname feature ATR now (didn’t know where to post)
 
Controversial, I know, but I’d also suggest that the King George is a better, higher quality race than the Gold Cup.

It’s 3m at a quick, flat track where they go a right gallop and jumping, pace and stamina are all tested on a fair surface.

The Gold Cup is 3m2f with a steep finish, often run on softer ground than at Kempton. It’s high profile because of the festival it’s at, but it’s the 2nd longest race of the week there, and is a race more for the true “Stayers” than necessarily supremely talented horses.
 
TCH29 said:
Controversial, I know, but I’d also suggest that the King George is a better, higher quality race than the Gold Cup.

It’s 3m at a quick, flat track where they go a right gallop and jumping, pace and stamina are all tested on a fair surface.

The Gold Cup is 3m2f with a steep finish, often run on softer ground than at Kempton. It’s high profile because of the festival it’s at, but it’s the 2nd longest race of the week there, and is a race more for the true “Stayers” than necessarily supremely talented horses.
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Agreed.
You occasionally get some oaf's winning the Gold cup. And loads place in it and never win another race.
 
TCH29 said:
Controversial, I know, but I’d also suggest that the King George is a better, higher quality race than the Gold Cup.

It’s 3m at a quick, flat track where they go a right gallop and jumping, pace and stamina are all tested on a fair surface.

The Gold Cup is 3m2f with a steep finish, often run on softer ground than at Kempton. It’s high profile because of the festival it’s at, but it’s the 2nd longest race of the week there, and is a race more for the true “Stayers” than necessarily supremely talented horses.
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The only downside to the KG is that you rarely get much of an Irish contingent
 
Hurricane fly said:
The only downside to the KG is that you rarely get much of an Irish contingent
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Good point, but I actually think some highly thought of Irish horses would have been shown up there precisely because of the GS ground.

But i’d love to see more travel. The Vautour/Cue Card race was superb. Obviously Ireland has it’s own big day of racing on Boxing Day/27th, so it’s fair enough.

A GS ground Gold Cup would be interesting. I’d be very interested in Clan Des Obeaux for that this year.
 
TCH29 said:
Good point, but I actually think some highly thought of Irish horses would have been shown up there precisely because of the GS ground.

But i’d love to see more travel. The Vautour/Cue Card race was superb. Obviously Ireland has it’s own big day of racing on Boxing Day/27th, so it’s fair enough.

A GS ground Gold Cup would be interesting. I’d be very interested in Clan Des Obeaux for that this year.
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Highest quality means best v best and that happens in March, not December.
 
Footpad starts his 'Gold Cup' campaign today with a 2m6f race at Thurles.

Race fit Balko Des Flos needs to be put away with ease though really to show he's better than last year....
 
Interesting Daryl Jacob is on footpad and not townend, Walsh was always on even though munir and souede colours for Mullins. Also on allez dance later on the card. Do we think it is just a one off or possibly owners choice? Dj is retained rider for them after all. Suppose if he becomes a gold cup prospect probably better to get dj on board straight away as Townend will likely be on al boum or kemboy.
 
Craigy14 said:
Interesting Daryl Jacob is on footpad and not townend, Walsh was always on even though munir and souede colours for Mullins. Also on allez dance later on the card. Do we think it is just a one off or possibly owners choice? Dj is retained rider for them after all. Suppose if he becomes a gold cup prospect probably better to get dj on board straight away as Townend will likely be on al boum or kemboy.
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DJ has ridden Footpad 6 times, as opposed to Paul Townend just the 3 times. I think the only way DJ gets off is when Ruby was around tbh.

Also, IF the Gold Cup is the target then Townend and the Mullins lads will have plenty of other options.
 
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