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Champion Hurdle 2020

ComplyOrDie said:
Before anything is confirmed, does anyone other than me think sometimes horses are pulled for reasons beyond injury, i.e. agreements between other owners or trainers, or just because the owner doesn't want to run it in a specific race but doesn't want the outcry of a horse not taking its chance so the story of 'out for the season' is created, etc....?

I'm pretty sceptical about word of a lot of owners/trainers, I don't believe many a lot of the time. It may be for another thread, but seeing as we seem to be on the verge of hearing some news regarding Saldier, I just thought I'd ask.

FWIW, I think the owner has every right to do what they like with their horses, they pay for them so it's tough, from a punter or fans perspective, but I wonder if they fear the backlash.

I don't think it really affects syndicates, as much due to the size of a group of owners it is really, but the individual owner would probably be affected a bit more.
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I don't think they lie all the time, or much at all Cod.
But the constant requirement and thirst for information from media and punters means they often have to provide answers or quotes.

But they're not all very good at 'lawyer speak' so some are often a little more committal than ideal, and don't provide caveat after caveat, But an interview would be pretty tricky to listen too if they kept saying 'IF' all the time.
Obviously it's equally frustrating when we get the non committal answers.

Willie was criticised by some for saying Benie would definitely run at the weekend.
He obviously didn't feel the need to add 'as long as she's fit and well at declaration day she'll be declared'
He took it for granted that people would factor that in. Which I think is fair.

A worse example was Kim Bailey ruling Vinndication out of the festival earlier this year. Only to see it do some good work a day or two later and change his mind. Absolutely no need to rule it out in the first place, he could have just said it was doubtful.

And The O'Leary's constantly saying Apple's Jade will go for the mares. Bad form that.
And Elliott saying Envoi Allen would not run at the festival. Bad form that.

The skill is reading between the lines and asking the what if questions yourself. Which isn't easy.
 
As much as we all hate it, Willie, or any other trainer for that matter, does not have to consider the ante post punter in their decision making process. Their job is to do what is best for the horse, the owner and themselves. Anything that a trainer says should never be taken as gospel as they can always change strategy and it is totally their prerogative.

Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.
 
Gutted if he is. £40 @ 20/1. Bugger. Move on....
 
Can We please try not to mention cash amounts lobos
 
Cashed out one bet to cover stake on the others but will be gutted if he is out. I wouldn't be surprised in the age of the twitter rumor mill if more people than usual cashed Saldier out under suspicions he's out and B365 suspend as a precautionary measure. Probably being optimistic.
 
charlie said:
Cashed out one bet to cover stake on the others but will be gutted if he is out. I wouldn't be surprised in the age of the twitter rumor mill if more people than usual cashed Saldier out under suspicions he's out and B365 suspend as a precautionary measure. Probably being optimistic.
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i'd say thats a fair guess
 
quevega said:
I don't think they lie all the time, or much at all Cod.
But the constant requirement and thirst for information from media and punters means they often have to provide answers or quotes.

But they're not all very good at 'lawyer speak' so some are often a little more committal than ideal, and don't provide caveat after caveat, But an interview would be pretty tricky to listen too if they kept saying 'IF' all the time.
Obviously it's equally frustrating when we get the non committal answers.

Willie was criticised by some for saying Benie would definitely run at the weekend.
He obviously didn't feel the need to add 'as long as she's fit and well at declaration day she'll be declared'
He took it for granted that people would factor that in. Which I think is fair.

A worse example was Kim Bailey ruling Vinndication out of the festival earlier this year. Only to see it do some good work a day or two later and change his mind. Absolutely no need to rule it out in the first place, he could have just said it was doubtful.

And The O'Leary's constantly saying Apple's Jade will go for the mares. Bad form that.
And Elliott saying Envoi Allen would not run at the festival. Bad form that.

The skill is reading between the lines and asking the what if questions yourself. Which isn't easy.
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Fair points Q.

You'd think you'd have to be a pretty good poker player to read between the lines that trainers offer :highly_amused:

Three really good examples of 'bad form' though, and potentially we just remember more of the bad ones, they hurt more, than the ones where they supply us say Samcro, as an example, for the Ballymore @ 16/1, where the yard and some connections were pretty confident and the money came which acted as a tell tale sign, so a lot got on board and it became a particularly good festival.

The intention is not to dig any particular trainer out, but maybe I just over think things, and wonder by taking Saldier out early it would encourage say Honeysuckle's connections to re-route to the Champion Hurdle early, and leave the door way open for BDD in the mares, these are the sorts of thoughts I have :highly_amused::highly_amused:
 
charlie said:
Cashed out one bet to cover stake on the others but will be gutted if he is out. I wouldn't be surprised in the age of the twitter rumor mill if more people than usual cashed Saldier out under suspicions he's out and B365 suspend as a precautionary measure. Probably being optimistic.
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Must admit that was my thinking as well charlie.
 
charlie said:
Cashed out one bet to cover stake on the others but will be gutted if he is out. I wouldn't be surprised in the age of the twitter rumor mill if more people than usual cashed Saldier out under suspicions he's out and B365 suspend as a precautionary measure. Probably being optimistic.
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I can't cash, as went 'any race' straight after the last festival with WH. The irony being that I would usually have backed race specific (with cash out as an option, as per previous festivals) but for the 'any race' option as a 'safety net' seemingly causing more a loss than if cash out was available on this occasion, whether that's bad punting or just s**t luck, I don't know.

It's not the end of the world that my two biggest 'any race' punts go in the bin, as I was a bit more cautious this season anyway.
 
Lobos said:
For any reason??
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We try to hesitate using cash and use points instead, one man's £100 is another man's £10 and we don't want that to affect people's opinion of somebodys bet
 
ryanh97 said:
We try to hesitate using cash and use points instead, one man's £100 is another man's £10 and we don't want that to affect people's opinion of somebodys bet
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good explanation ryan
 
ryanh97 said:
We try to hesitate using cash and use points instead, one man's £100 is another man's £10 and we don't want that to affect people's opinion of somebodys bet
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OK, soz. I'll just stick to odds from now.
 
At what price do you back saldier on the exchange? and just hope hes got a knock, so therefore will be back
 
Champion Hurdle favourite Saldier will not run in the Grade 1 Matheson Hurdle at Leopardstown over Christmas.

The five-year-old was a surprise winner of the Morgiana Hurdle last month, beating stablemate Klassical Dream and Petit Mouchoir, but trainer Willie Mullins was not completely happy with his runner after the race.

Speaking on Monday, Mullins said: "Saldier didn't come out of his Morgiana win as well as I'd hoped.

"I'm not 100 per cent happy with him so we decided not to enter him for the Matheson Hurdle on December 29. Hopefully he will be back in action early in the new year."

Saldier's victory in the Morgiana was his second top-level success and his first start since shattering his nose in a fall at Naas last year.

Mullins has made three entries for the Matheson Hurdle, which takes place on the final day of the Christmas festival.

Among those who could line up is last season's Supreme winner Klassical Dream, dual Grade 1 scorer Sharjah, and Aramon.

Nine other runners have been entered for two-mile contest, which include Petit Mouchoir and the unbeaten Honeysuckle, though connections said on Monday she was unlikely to run.
 
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