Champion Hurdle 2020

[Deleted member 4957]

sometimes I just wish they'd say they weren't good enough on the day or they were beat by the better horse. (a bit more often at least)

We all want honesty from connections but ultimately owners pay trainers fees and some would feel disrespected if their chosen trainer said publicly their horse wasn't up to the mark.
Apart from anything else it would suggest the trainer has made a mistake in the race the horse was entered...

 

[Lobos]

I'd agree with all that if it wasn't for espoir d'allen ??
proper makes me doubt.
And is the champion hurdler running in the fishery today ?:highly_amused:
Or at Wincanton :highly_amused:
surely not.

Champion Hurdlers running at Wincanton....never......hang on....Kribensis.....Alderbrook...

 

[Lobos]

For me the CH is there for the taking this year. Literally anything could come out of the woodwork and win it. I might be alone here but I don't like KD at all. If it comes up deep ground on the Tuesday then I'd give him a squeak. On Good/Soft he'll lack the pace for a CH.

 

[Scooby91]

For me the CH is there for the taking this year. Literally anything could come out of the woodwork and win it. I might be alone here but I don't like KD at all. If it comes up deep ground on the Tuesday then I'd give him a squeak. On Good/Soft he'll lack the pace for a CH.

Felix desjy is pretty quick, cruised past him on the bridle, also the last one off the bridle in the supreme and hardly came off it.

My worry would be what he finds off the bridle, and the ability of the horses he beat, compared to Buveur dair, deffinately not pace

 

[SAMCRO]

Felix desjy is pretty quick, cruised past him on the bridle, also the last one off the bridle in the supreme and hardly came off it.

My worry would be what he finds off the bridle, and the ability of the horses he beat, compared to Buveur dair, deffinately not pace

Is it just a price thing for you not backing him Scooby? And that he may not improve as much as hes already had quite a few runs?

 

[Quevega]

We all want honesty from connections but ultimately owners pay trainers fees and some would feel disrespected if their chosen trainer said publicly their horse wasn't up to the mark.
Apart from anything else it would suggest the trainer has made a mistake in the race the horse was entered...

They are salesmen (some are better than others).
Most owners are surely clever enough to understand that not every horse can win every race.

I wouldn't suggest trainers are being dishonest to be fair, it just grates on me when they persistently offer up excuses (ground, trip, course, left v right, flu, trampoline grass etc) as to why a horse hasn't won or performed as expected.
They imply the horse would have been/performed better, when this nearly always cannot be proven.

They accept falls well enough though (they'd never say that they'd not practiced as much as they'd had a flu jab). That'd look bad.

 

[Lobos]

Felix desjy is pretty quick, cruised past him on the bridle, also the last one off the bridle in the supreme and hardly came off it.

My worry would be what he finds off the bridle, and the ability of the horses he beat, compared to Buveur dair, deffinately not pace

It was a very soft ground Supreme though and the race time was slow. He outstayed them for me, they were strung out behind him like nothing else. On quicker ground he'll struggle. On a side note I dislike B Dair for this even more. He won't win another Churdle.

 

[archie]

Klassical Dream won a 2m G1 at Leopardstown on rattling quick ground.

 

[Quevega]

And beat most of the same horses at Punchestown on good to soft (yielding)
Think Lobos has a bee in bonnet about the ground for this horse (KD)
It might not win champion hurdle Lobos, but it won't be because of the ground.

 

[charlie]

For me the CH is there for the taking this year. Literally anything could come out of the woodwork and win it. I might be alone here but I don't like KD at all. If it comes up deep ground on the Tuesday then I'd give him a squeak. On Good/Soft he'll lack the pace for a CH.

I completely agree, but do think KD will be more ground versatile than you think

 

[Lobos]

Klassical Dream won a 2m G1 at Leopardstown on rattling quick ground.

Scraped home that day and looked a Stayer to me though.

 

[Lobos]

And beat most of the same horses at Punchestown on good to soft (yielding)
Think Lobos has a bee in bonnet about the ground for this horse (KD)
It might not win champion hurdle Lobos, but it won't be because of the ground.

Mullins was also worried about the ground for him at Cheltenham. The fact is he would have ran in the Ballymore if the rain hadn't come so connections do have concerns over the ground for him. He won't run in the Morgiana if the ground isn't Soft.

 

[Quevega]

Mullins was also worried about the ground for him at Cheltenham. The fact is he would have ran in the Ballymore if the rain hadn't come so connections do have concerns over the ground for him. He won't run in the Morgiana if the ground isn't Soft.

I think they were just musing Lobos. Just warble really.

Although if Willie has choice for their first race of season he clearly likes to run most on soft ground .

And it's not a fact, as it didn't happen.
The horse is clearly blessed with very good speed and stamina so looks flexible enough to me.
He beat horses with speed in the Supreme, who couldn't live with the pace in that ground, and had too much stamina for the ones with stamina who chased him home past beaten horses.

 

[Quevega]

Scraped home that day and looked a Stayer to me though.

Think that was more down to the pace the race was ran at. Slow then a sprint finish.

 

[Lobos]

Think that was more down to the pace the race was ran at. Slow then a sprint finish.

The winning time wouldn't suggest it was slow. KD outstayed Aramon for me.

 

[Lobos]

I think they were just musing Lobos. Just warble really.

Although if Willie has choice for their first race of season he clearly likes to run most on soft ground .

And it's not a fact, as it didn't happen.
The horse is clearly blessed with very good speed and stamina so looks flexible enough to me.
He beat horses with speed in the Supreme, who couldn't live with the pace in that ground, and had too much stamina for the ones with stamina who chased him home past beaten horses.

Think the speedier types just fell away up the hill because of the soft ground and as you say the staying types fought out the finish. When I say 'fact' I mean it was a fact that Mullins said he was only switched to the Supreme because of the Soft ground. If the ground was Good/Soft that day we wouldn't be having this debate.

 

[Quevega]

The winning time wouldn't suggest it was slow. KD outstayed Aramon for me.

I see what you're saying, but surely it's evidence of his speed also ?
My memory is that both that race and the juvenile one was pretty steadily run for quick ground although the 4yr old race was slower I know.

 

[Quevega]

Think the speedier types just fell away up the hill because of the soft ground and as you say the staying types fought out the finish. When I say 'fact' I mean it was a fact that Mullins said he was only switched to the Supreme because of the Soft ground. If the ground was Good/Soft that day we wouldn't be having this debate.

But you appear to be still forming your betting thought process (at least in part) on trainer musings prior to the 2019 festival.
When you now have other more pressing evidence to go on. Like his Punchestown run and the collateral form.
Knowing full well that the ground will be Gd to Sft at worst on day one of the festival

 

[Lobos]

But you appear to be still forming your betting thought process (at least in part) on trainer musings prior to the 2019 festival.
When you now have other more pressing evidence to go on. Like his Punchestown run and the collateral form.
Knowing full well that the ground will be Gd to Sft at worst on day one of the festival

I'm not a fan of Punchestown. You often get strange results there after a long season. The way this year is going he will probably get the deep ground in the Churdle but I still say, on G/S he'll be vulnerable to quicker types.

 

[jack1092]

I'm not a fan of Punchestown. You often get strange results there after a long season. The way this year is going he will probably get the deep ground in the Churdle but I still say, on G/S he'll be vulnerable to quicker types.

The issue might be finding these “quicker types”.... not sure there’s millions of them about tbh.