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Champion Chase 2018

jono said:
You mentioned you were at Mullins yard recently archie - were there any horses that stood out for you?
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With the proviso that:
1. the festival horses are only about two thirds of the way through preparation
and
2. out of respect for other owners, I wouldn't be commenting on novices and unexposed horses.

Of the established performers (and I didn't see them all), Douvan, Min and UDS all looked on good terms with themselves and the world in general.
 
Robante said:
Does anyone know if Special Tiara is a cert to defend his crown? Key runner for me as I fancy Great Field to set a relentless gallop and try to make all in this race. With Special Tiara there they'll probably go off too fast together and set the race up for Altior/Min, but if no Special Tiara then i think Great Field would take some pegging back
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Yes I saw HdB on ATR say that was the plan.
 
Faugheen_Machine said:
I love these type of multiples. They are almost related contingency bets, as where one horse lines up directly effects where the other will run.

The 89/1 is probably closer to 10/1 if they turn up in these races
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Totally agree with that ^ FM/Leman.

One of the best ways to create value now ante post IMO.

Obviously the hard part is getting it right and then they have to win ... but they are the kind of related multiples that I put my 'free bets' on usually.
 
ComplyOrDie said:
I'm glad you've brought up the Ruby quote about being reminded of Kauto Star, because Kauto Star was run in the Champion Chase, so maybe, only maybe, a little clue that Min will indeed contest the Champion Chase instead of Douvan, before stepping up in trip, possibly?

Interestingly though Willie Mullins has never won this race, even with his 'sure thing' this year!
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Are you guys getting confused here? OR am I?

Ruby has 100% compared Douvan to Kauto Star. Never have I heard him mention Min in the same breath. In fact, in almost EVERY single bit of 'tape' you can find regarding Min, Ruby talks him DOWN compared to Vautour and Faugheen that came before him. I remember them saying he was similar to Champange Fever in terms of him build (A slim french bred chaser) .....

I can't have Min beating Altior. Cannot have it. I HAVE however got enough free bets on to give me a very comfortable reward for getting this wrong.




I DO think if Min turned up, 12/1 each way is an absolutely knocking-good bet though... so work that out :highly_amused:
 
Kevloaf said:
Jeez. :devilish: ... I'm trying to un-read it
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If you watch the race replay, at the end you will see the biggest grin on Ruby's face.

That tells me he thinks Min is special...
 
Innoko said:
If you watch the race replay, at the end you will see the biggest grin on Ruby's face.

That tells me he thinks Min is special...
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There is not any way I'm exert going to believe he rates Min as highly as Douvan. Even if he said it, I'd refuse to believe it. haha.

Even Kauto star wouldn't have beaten Altior over 2m though :p
 
In a FB live Q&A on RUK's page today, Ruby was asked

"do you think Min is a 2 miler or could he be stretched out further"

"his style of racing suggests he's a two miler, erm, he'd have to improve to compete with the two milers at the moment, so he may end up going further if he hasn't improved. He'll need to improve to be a top class 2 miler"
 
Mullins has more news on his jumpers, expressing delight at the well-being of the brilliant Min, which missed out on an Arkle clash with Altior in March due to injury.

"Min is in great order and has come back much stronger than he has ever been," Mullins said. "He will start off in autumn at two-mile senior chasing."

This was back in August but i cant get away from how Willie talks about Min. Before the supreme, After the racing post novice chase, when he got injured especially there was some quite stand out quotes about how dissapointed he was.

To me, Min looks much more comfortable in a quick pace 2 miles than Douvan. I do believe Min could serve it upto Altior with his slick jumping, getting Altior off the bridle early (as he does) in a CC and putting his jumping under pressure.

Lets hope we see one of these match ups anyway

Altior VS Douvan
Altior VS Min
 
I was looking forward to Altior v Min last season before injury. So hopefully all Is fine this time around
 
I too think Min looks a better chaser than hurdler and believe he will be better over 2m than Douvan, big statement of course.

Hoping it's Altior vs Min, and even though Altior won cosily enough in the end at Cheltenham he was made to work for it and that race was without Min in it who in all honesty is potentially better opposition than Altior faced in the Arkle!
 
The dilemma with Min, who I want to have 'onside'. Is that realistically he can only go for the CC (12-1) or Ryanair (14-1).

Both races have a worthy fav in Altior and Fox Norton.

The any race market has Min at 7-1 best price. I don't see him being too much shorter know matter which race he runs in. The value only truly lies in knowing which race he is likely to go for. And knowing me, I would pick the wrong one! (CC for the record)...
 
ComplyOrDie said:
I too think Min looks a better chaser than hurdler and believe he will be better over 2m than Douvan, big statement of course.

Hoping it's Altior vs Min, and even though Altior won cosily enough in the end at Cheltenham he was made to work for it and that race was without Min in it who in all honesty is potentially better opposition than Altior faced in the Arkle!
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Oosh yeh, very big statement. Ruby said Min would need to have improved over the summer to be considered as a top 2 miler... I can't have that being true at all.

I was debating with jono about this and think I'll be in the minority, but my big shout is the UDS would beat Min over 2m!
 
Mullins has said Min has come back much stronger than hes ever been.

Min hasn't done much wrong if you look back on his races. The injury in the supreme would have effected the distance he was beat by altior, possibly even the result, who knows and with a rumored wind op since then and the way he jumps a fence, i cant wait to see him back over 2 miles this season.
 
Kevloaf said:
Oosh yeh, very big statement. Ruby said Min would need to have improved over the summer to be considered as a top 2 miler... I can't have that being true at all.

I was debating with jono about this and think I'll be in the minority, but my big shout is the UDS would beat Min over 2m!
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Ruby say's a lot of things, he also said he reminds him of Kauto Star, as someone said earlier in the thread :p So I'll take his word with a pinch of salt.

Do you think UDS would push Altior? For me Altior does his best work at the finish, or least it seemed that way in the Arkle this year, if that's the case, and I believe it is, then Cheltenham should be perfect for him with the uphill finish, however Min has a brilliant turn of foot, more so, for some reason, it seems over fences than over hurdles, and it's that turn of foot for me that I think will see Altior struggle to peg back, should they actually meet of course!
 
I read that UDS and Altior are due to meet in the tingle creek ... so we'll find out hopefully. I do think UDS will be the toughest test that Altior will have faced, and it may give Altior the chance to put in an almighty performance. If he can pick up UDS and pull clear that'll impress me more than any of his other wins. (Not that he needs to)

If we go off what ruby has said, 1. He's like Kauto. 2. He's not a top 2 miler .... then you can ignore both haha. I'll go off my own thoughts that he was a notch below Altior, and he won't be bridging that gap. That doesn't mean he can't win races and he may be very good .... but he's not going to win any race at Cheltenham without a better horse underperforming in my opinion
 
Fair enough Kev, I'm of a differing opinion, but that's the great thing about this game, the opinions.

Looking forward to UDS vs Altior if it does go ahead, though does give WPM a line to against Altior for both Min & Douvan, despite having a different owner.
 
ComplyOrDie said:
Fair enough Kev, I'm of a differing opinion, but that's the great thing about this game, the opinions.

Looking forward to UDS vs Altior if it does go ahead, though does give WPM a line to against Altior for both Min & Douvan, despite having a different owner.
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:encouragement:

I'd think they'll be able to use that running to know where they stand with Douvan. My personal hunch is that, if they feel Douvan would have a favourites chance against Altior, he'll run.... if they DON'T, they'll say Min is improving, can "put it up to Altior".... send Douvan over further (maybe even pick up the Ryanair!) and win that race with Douvan, leaving Min to be 'put away' by Altior again. Altior improved as a chaser for me, and already had 7L on Min... so Min would need to have improved as a chaser (which he looks like he had AND then make up 7L)....

Soft ground for the Tingle Creek would be perfect to test Altior/UDS!
 
Thought I'd give this a little bump.

It's not that I don't respect the horse or the trainer but I am definitely going against Altior this festival.

My reasoning, well, I don't think anyone is under any illusions that this would be his toughest test to date should one of Douvan or Min turn up against him, then you also have Great Field in there too, I'm hoping it's Min & Great Field that take him on to be honest, both of which are massively lightly raced in comparison to Altior, and are arguably open to more improvement than him.

I've re-watched the Arkle and can't help but feel Altior would have been in trouble against any horse that had a turn of foot and gone on sooner, but such was the massive lack in opposition he only had to be OK to win the Arkle this year, if the same Altior turns up in that form of this years Arkle then I honestly can not see him winning. His current price is damn awful.

I will lay him nearer the time, after he's swooped by some inadequate opposition no doubt and becomes a whole lot shorter, then possible back in running and he's never one to get going quickly from what I've seen!
 
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