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2025 Novice Hurdlers

FWIW i have backed Regents Stroll for the Gallaghers at 40/1. That was one of the early plays back in the spring. He is still about 33/1. I think that is proper value. Paul Nicholls told Chris Giles that this horse is potentially the best one he has ever had and asked him if he was sure he wanted to sell. If PN thinks that, he is a must for both races IMO.

I'd never even heard of this lad then I looked up his price! 660k ffs.

As a general rule of thumb I try not to back any British trained novice hurdlers ante post, it's just not something that works out historically well. The Irish have won 22 out of the last 30 novice Grade 1 hurdles at Cheltenham and their dominance looks on the up, so I think it pays to focus on them. Look at the Gallaghers - in last 5 years 1 British trained horse has placed, just 1. IMO it pays to focus on the Irish and fight the temptation to try and find the next big thing trained here. All the numbers tell you is you'll come up short. The only exception here is Nicky, but I've wasted so many points over the years trying to find his Supreme horse and his record in the Gallagher is terrible, so again I try and avoid.

That dominance plays to our favour though in the market. British trained horses tend to be much better prices after we've seen them. Yes, you may miss out on 33's about a horse like Regents Stroll, but even if he looked awesome he might be cut to 10's whereas if it was one of Willies it would be 7/2. BMG was touted as the second coming by PN and you could back him at 7's the week before Cheltenham. This is just a personal preference, but i'd rather weigh in with 5 points at that price with a ton of information and a good idea of what will line up, than chuck a point at 33's now effectively betting in the dark. I've learnt over the years that those points here and there particularly at this time of the season add up and damage your P&L, and I say that as something who backed Shishkin at 33's (will never tire of mentioning that) and still haven't turned a profit on British trained novice hurdlers over the last 10 years!

In the case of Paul Nicholls specifically, I wouldn't touch anything of his ante post over hurdles for Cheltenham because his three favourite words appear to be 'wait for aintree'. He's a trainer you'd associate with staying chasers and he appears to look for any reason not to run horses and give them time. He avoided Cheltenham with Regents Stroll and scrapped running arguably one of his exciting novices in Caldwell Potter at all. Fair play to him, the patience approach can work well and he says what he thinks, but I think its a mistake backing any of his ante post without a really good reason to do so and by that, I mean Paul has specifically said they will go to Cheltenham.
 
I'd never even heard of this lad then I looked up his price! 660k ffs.

As a general rule of thumb I try not to back any British trained novice hurdlers ante post, it's just not something that works out historically well. The Irish have won 22 out of the last 30 novice Grade 1 hurdles at Cheltenham and their dominance looks on the up, so I think it pays to focus on them. Look at the Gallaghers - in last 5 years 1 British trained horse has placed, just 1. IMO it pays to focus on the Irish and fight the temptation to try and find the next big thing trained here. All the numbers tell you is you'll come up short. The only exception here is Nicky, but I've wasted so many points over the years trying to find his Supreme horse and his record in the Gallagher is terrible, so again I try and avoid.

That dominance plays to our favour though in the market. British trained horses tend to be much better prices after we've seen them. Yes, you may miss out on 33's about a horse like Regents Stroll, but even if he looked awesome he might be cut to 10's whereas if it was one of Willies it would be 7/2. BMG was touted as the second coming by PN and you could back him at 7's the week before Cheltenham. This is just a personal preference, but i'd rather weigh in with 5 points at that price with a ton of information and a good idea of what will line up, than chuck a point at 33's now effectively betting in the dark. I've learnt over the years that those points here and there particularly at this time of the season add up and damage your P&L, and I say that as something who backed Shishkin at 33's (will never tire of mentioning that) and still haven't turned a profit on British trained novice hurdlers over the last 10 years!

In the case of Paul Nicholls specifically, I wouldn't touch anything of his ante post over hurdles for Cheltenham because his three favourite words appear to be 'wait for aintree'. He's a trainer you'd associate with staying chasers and he appears to look for any reason not to run horses and give them time. He avoided Cheltenham with Regents Stroll and scrapped running arguably one of his exciting novices in Caldwell Potter at all. Fair play to him, the patience approach can work well and he says what he thinks, but I think its a mistake backing any of his ante post without a really good reason to do so and by that, I mean Paul has specifically said they will go to Cheltenham.

Completely agree on all this. Would even add in the Supreme for the stats, Irish had 1st 5 home last season and in 2023 had the 1st 8! In the last five seasons only one British trainer outside of Henderson has had a horse placed in the race and that was Hales with For Pleasure, aided by Blue Lord falling at the last when booked for 2nd! Unless Henderson has something special (Shishkin, Constitution Hill & Jonbon were all strong talking horses before they ran over hurdles) then I am disregarding the British novices when it comes to the Supreme and Gallaghers.
 
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Completely agree on all this. Would even add in the Supreme for the stats, Irish had 1st 5 home last season and in 2023 had the 1st 8! In the last five seasons only one British trainer outside of Henderson has had a horse placed in the race and that was Hales with For Pleasure, aided by Blue Lord falling at the last when booked for 2nd! Unless Henderson has something special (Shishkin, Constitution Hill & Jonbon were all strong talking horses before they ran over hurdles) then I am disregarding the British novices when it comes to the Supreme and Gallaghers.

Exactly. Of the 8 winning British novice hurdlers in the last decade across all novice grade 1 hurdles their average SP has been 10/1. Barring Con Hill (9/4) you could back horses like Shishkin @ 6/1. Obviously we have the benefit of hindsight and markets are tighter, but it goes to show that if you didn't back a single British trained novice all season, saved 5-10 points and waited until the day, you are going to be in a far better position taking a view at 6's than you are pray and spraying 33/1 shots.
 
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Does Nicky have anything potentially string for Suprene we know about yet?

He’s only one I look at really

stopped doing much AP on spuds race anyway
 
Does Nicky have anything potentially string for Suprene we know about yet?

He’s only one I look at really

stopped doing much AP on spuds race anyway

He’s got two unraced stores I like who could be candidates, Blue Run and Soldier Saint. There is also Minella Premier but he’s a strange one on breeding versus what he did in his point.
 
Nothing mentioned for Supreme in OJA Top 40 Prospects. Mentions Minella Premier and Kingston Pride but suggests both best over 2m4.
 
Does Nicky have anything potentially string for Suprene we know about yet?

He’s only one I look at really

stopped doing much AP on spuds race anyway

He has a couple of potential French recruits though would expect to be hearing much more about them than we have done. Of his bumper horses I have tipped and backed Kingston Pride at 100/1 having also followed him last year when they thought he was decent. He has the highest rating on RPR's with a 118 but that is a few pounds short of where I would want a Supreme winner to be and in that brief article with Henderson recently he wasn't even given a mention with Tradecraft being the horse he referred to from bumpers having finished 2nd to Regent's Stroll but an RPR high of 110. Not sure on any second season novices he may have?
 
Does Nicky have anything potentially string for Suprene we know about yet?

He’s only one I look at really

stopped doing much AP on spuds race anyway

https://www.fatjockey.com/forum/fat...kie-moon-horses-to-follow?p=467656#post467656

The post on the two unraced stores I like of his. They were both due to run in the spring but didn't make it to the track after the ground turned good. It's possible they have a bumper campaign still but Hendo usually likes to crack on.
 
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In my opinion you can transfer between the Gallaghers and Supreme but not the Gallaghers and the Albert Bartlett. So for me, he’d only ever be a ‘must’ for one of the races, not both.

This is really important when assessing the novice hurdlers.

What I always try to do is establish in my mind whether a horse is quick enough to win or place in a Supreme. RPR's are very reliable guide for this. 140+ over the minimum or intermediate trip is vital, and them I'm interested in them for the Gallaghers. Hit 150 and I'm interested in them for the Supreme. The exception then is when Mullins has horses that could go either way, and his best two are likely to be split across the two races, with his best ex-Pointer likely to be the Gallaghers horse. Again the exception is if that horse is a much slicker jumper than the ex-French, Bumper, or ex-Flat horse rated good enough for Townend to ride.

If a horse isn't at that level after 2 (or 3 runs in exceptional circumstances), they are in my Bartlett pool of horses. And frankly that pool aren't going to win the other two races, although a place is possible in a weak or small field Gallaghers.
 
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So you wait until backing them until they've hit that mark over Hurdles? Or do you back several AP and then cash them in if they don't hit that mark after 2/3 runs?
 
The Enabler is declared over 2m at Galway on Tuesday. It's a weak race so the trip might not be a problem. But combined with how early he's out, I'd be naive not to think that handicaps could be on the agenda as well.

Judging on what I've just watched I don't think we"ll be seeing The Enabler over 2miles ever again. Big horse. Very green. Reckon he'll need 3 miles or a fence to be seen at his best. Just my opinion.
 
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Judging on what I've just watched I don't think we"ll be seeing The Enabler over 2miles ever again. Big horse. Very green. Reckon he'll need 3 miles or a fence to be seen at his best. Just my opinion.

Pertemps.....Martin Pipe......Albert.....
 
Pertemps.....Martin Pipe......Albert.....

I don't think anyone will be rushing to back him after watching that run. A big step up in trip needed.

given he's out early, i wonder if the Pertemps is in the back of their mind.
 
Judging on what I've just watched I don't think we"ll be seeing The Enabler over 2miles ever again. Big horse. Very green. Reckon he'll need 3 miles or a fence to be seen at his best. Just my opinion.

Yeah he looked huge! Made the winner look like a pony. 2 miles at Galway would not have been his ideal conditions but I’d have hoped he could get it done. It’s not a huge blow for the AB as I say the same thing every year: horses rarely rock up with a string of 1’s next to their name and win the AB.
 
Judging on what I've just watched I don't think we"ll be seeing The Enabler over 2miles ever again. Big horse. Very green. Reckon he'll need 3 miles or a fence to be seen at his best. Just my opinion.

He looked a fair size today.

Just for some reference, ALL of Gordon's Martin Pipe Hurdle winners lost (or fell) first time out over hurdlers.

Better Days Ahead - 2m6f - Fell when travelling well but being challenged - Also lost a further 2 times before the Martin Pipe
Blow By Blow - 2m - 3rd on hurdling debut - Also lost a further two times during the season before winning the Martin Pipe
Champagne Classic - 2m4f - 2nd on hurdling debut - Also lost a further 3 times during the season before winning the Martin Pipe

If we also add in unlucky 'forum favourite' Column Of Fire his reads - 2m3f - 3rd on hurdling debut - Also lost a further 3 times (inc. 1 fall) during the season before falling in the Martin Pipe


We know Gordon is a creature of habit, just seems a rinse and repeat job here. Could end up being wrong of course.

By comparison, and I haven't done a deep dive into this, just 3 of the more recent ones (and not to support the case, but these were the first 3 that come to mind) his Bartlett hopefuls started out and won first time out over or around the intermediate trip. I looked at Stellar Story, Ginto & Death Duty, the former obviously won last seasons renewal and the other two were incredibly well supported in the market.
 
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Based on today his two options would be Albert Bartlett or Martin Pipe. And I only mention the Martin Pipe because he is out so early to get the required number of runs in to qualify under the new rules. I wouldn't write off any AB slips.
 
He looked a fair size today.

Just for some reference, ALL of Gordon's Martin Pipe Hurdle winners lost (or fell) first time out over hurdlers.

Better Days Ahead - 2m6f - Fell when travelling well but being challenged - Also lost a further 2 times before the Martin Pipe
Blow By Blow - 2m - 3rd on hurdling debut - Also lost a further two times during the season before winning the Martin Pipe
Champagne Classic - 2m4f - 2nd on hurdling debut - Also lost a further 3 times during the season before winning the Martin Pipe

If we also add in unlucky 'forum favourite' Column Of Fire his reads - 2m3f - 3rd on hurdling debut - Also lost a further 3 times (inc. 1 fall) during the season before falling in the Martin Pipe


We know Gordon is a creature of habit, just seems a rinse and repeat job here. Could end up being wrong of course.

By comparison, and I haven't done a deep dive into this, just 3 of the more recent ones (and not to support the case, but these were the first 3 that come to mind) his Bartlett hopefuls started out and won first time out over or around the intermediate trip. I looked at Stellar Story, Ginto & Death Duty, the former obviously won last seasons renewal and the other two were incredibly well supported in the market.

Very good data point. Food for thought. Thank you COD.
 
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I don't think anyone will be rushing to back him after watching that run. A big step up in trip needed.

given he's out early, i wonder if the Pertemps is in the back of their mind.

Yep Machine, that was my first thought. Can't believe I'm thinking Pertemps in early October :biggrin-new:
 
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I think it's worth pointing out that, whilst it was probably not ideal The Enabler being beat on hurdlers debut, he was coming up against a very race fit horse from the flat, who is in good health, looking at his recent results.
 
Not too worried about him being beaten today (though not ideal) over the inadequate trip. There will be plenty to come from him stepping up. I was hoping Hills would push his 'Any Race' price out but they haven't budged. I am more worried that he is out in the first week of October but let's see what he does and where he goes with his other ones. Kish Bank next on the list.