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2025 Novice Chasers

Word of warning re Croke Park.

He may have bled his last race.

Vet reported blood from both nostrils. Could have just clipped a fence of course.
 
ComplyOrDie said:
Do you have the quotes regarding Croke Park & Stellar Story for the Bartlett Lobos ?

FWIW, I thought Search For Glory was more impressive than Croke Park, on chase debut. He finished down the field in the Bartlett, but went off shorter than Stellar Story on the day.

Minefield trying to work out the Elliott/Giggs horses this season.
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"This chance though was far from fancied. Not only was his winning 33-1 starting price the biggest across the 27-race meeting, but he was also not even set to appear in Gloucestershire. Elliott had intended to run Croke Park in the race but lameness ruled him out. Stellar Story proved the perfect substitute. "

“I wasn't going to run him," the trainer said. "I was going to run Croke Park but he was lame on Wednesday morning, so I ran this horse. He was going to go to Aintree for the three-mile hurdle, so that shows what I know."
 
Lobos said:
"This chance though was far from fancied. Not only was his winning 33-1 starting price the biggest across the 27-race meeting, but he was also not even set to appear in Gloucestershire. Elliott had intended to run Croke Park in the race but lameness ruled him out. Stellar Story proved the perfect substitute. "
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Cheers, but were there any direct quotes from Elliott?

I remember Croke Park being fancied by a fair few on here and social media, but that was it.
 
ComplyOrDie said:
Cheers, but were there any direct quotes from Elliott?

I remember Croke Park being fancied by a fair few on here and social media, but that was it.
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It’s the second part of Lobos’ post isn’t it?
 
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ComplyOrDie said:
Cheers, but were there any direct quotes from Elliott?

I remember Croke Park being fancied by a fair few on here and social media, but that was it.
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See above .....I added a bit more. You were too quick for me:chuncky:
 
Glad you asked me to look it up as I thought they hadn't given a reason for pulling him. Perhaps the problem was still there when he ran at Aintree.
 
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Lobos said:
See above .....I added a bit more. You were too quick for me:chuncky:
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Cheers :encouragement:

I couldn't find anything, that said, I didnt exactly look that hard :highly_amused:
 
Looking at their official ratings there's not much at all between Better Days Ahead, Stellar Story and Croke Park. Anyone of those 3 could go the Handicap route. Maybe 1 NHC, 1 Turners and 1 BANC.

Anyone for an EW Patent??:cower:
 
Lobos said:
Looking at their official ratings there's not much at all between Better Days Ahead, Stellar Story and Croke Park. Anyone of those 3 could go the Handicap route. Maybe 1 NHC, 1 Turners and 1 BANC.

Anyone for an EW Patent??:cower:
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I’d say Better Days Ahead and Stellar Story would be a lot harder on marks of 145 and 148 over hurdles whereas Croke Park was at 140. Remember the NHC is a 145 limit, given the Irish tax Croke Park is the only one that could get in there imo, the other 2 would struggle to get low enough. I wouldn’t fancy any of them for the Turners right enough, Better Days Ahead possibly but think he needs 3m too. The Kim Muir also has the 145 top weight.

Edit - forgot Search For Glory but as COD says his chase debut was far more impressive than Croke Park. SFG was rated 139 over hurdles so is at the right hurdles mark to play with but the chase debut was far better than Croke Park beating Iris Emery 3/4 of a length. SFG mark if they went for a handicap would be considerably higher imo than Croke Park on the back of that.
 
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Lobos said:
Looking at their official ratings there's not much at all between Better Days Ahead, Stellar Story and Croke Park. Anyone of those 3 could go the Handicap route. Maybe 1 NHC, 1 Turners and 1 BANC.

Anyone for an EW Patent??:cower:
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None of those three boats would be quick enough for the Turners. They could find their way into non-novice handicaps though if you don’t see them all going the graded route.
 
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I've had a look at the HRI pattern book and only the following 2 mile listed or graded novice races seem to be available until the festival. Please shout if I've missed something.

I've had to rely on last years pattern book for races in the new year as the HRI haven't yet published 2024/2025 Part 2 so the dates referenced relate to last years editions. I've excluded any races before the first weekend in November as most good horses will not have run a beginners chase in time to allow participation in those races. I've excluded races in March as that is reasonably too close to the festival, particularly this year with an earlier festival.
  • Nov 24 Punchestown Craddockstown Novice Steeplechase Y 4+ Gr 2 16f 36,500
  • Feb 03 Leopardstown Irish Arkle Novice Steeplechase Y 5+ Gr 1 17f 150,000
​And that's it. And the Craddockstown is too early for any horse that hasn't been out yet. Perhaps Firefox and Inthepocket could run there, but the others towards the top of the Arkle market won't have run in their beginners chase before then. The removal of the 2m Grade 1 over Christmas really seems to leave a hole in the calendar. I think that pushes trainers towards running their best just twice before the festival. Beginners - Irish Arkle - Festival.
​
There are some options over an extended trip, but none really stand out as a potential trial for Arkle horses. The roll of honour doesn't include many Arkle winners, or runners even.
  • Dec 01 Fairyhouse Drinmore Novice Steeplechase Y 4+ Gr 1 20f 85,000
  • Dec 28 Limerick Faugheen Novice Steeplechase Y 4+ Gr 1 19f 100,000
  • Jan 14 Punchestown Killiney Novice Steeplechase Y 5+ Gr 3 19f+ 36,500
​I think the only notable horses to compete in one of the above and then the Arkle at the festival in recent times are Gaelic Warrior (Faugheen) and Fakir D'oudaries (Drinmore). And in the case of the former, at that point, WPM felt he was a 3m stayer.

I think it raises numerous points of interest. Firstly, it's going to be very interesting seeing how trainers plot their 2m novice chasers following their beginners chase and until tie the Irish Arkle. Secondly, I do think it solidifies WPM's approach of only running his best once before the Irish Arkle and therefore twice before the festival. Thirdly, the calendar is slightly skewed towards the midtrip, which makes for an interesting juxtaposition with Cheltenham's new card. You could have horses excelling over the mid trip in Ireland and then having to choose to step up or down, or perhaps missing the festival altogether. I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing, but it will be interesting to see how it plays out. Fourthly, and this is relevant given Henry's comments re Inthepocket, there is no option at all in Ireland for horses who want to go left-handed over a trip shorter than 2m5f until the Irish Arkle. So, perhaps, ITP will travel to the UK for something.
 
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Exar Essay said:
The removal of the 2m Grade 1 over Christmas really seems to leave a hole in the calendar.
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Great post Exar, but I thought the 2m Grade 1 had only been downgraded to a Grade 2, rather than removed?

Your point about extremely limited options over 2m still stands though and will be interesting to see how it plays out as you say :encouragement:
 
Exar Essay said:
I think it's been removed entirely:

https://www.hri-ras.ie/getmedia/2f5...662aace2/2024-2025-NHPatternBooklet-Part1.pdf

The Royal Bond was downgraded to a Grade 2 at the same time IIRC,
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Right you are - sorry.

Racing Post article from last year confirming it as well as your pattern book link: https://www.racingpost.com/news/ire...acing-post-novice-chase-is-axed-as53t8e835XV/

Not the best from me given I've been working on the assumption that the Xmas (Grade 2 as it would be now) was still an option for horses like Tullyhill or Inthepocket. Feels like a really lobsided programme now - particularly as there's not much in the UK I don't think, with the Henry VIII also being right handed...
 
Odin said:
Right you are - sorry.

Racing Post article from last year confirming it as well as your pattern book link: https://www.racingpost.com/news/ire...acing-post-novice-chase-is-axed-as53t8e835XV/

Not the best from me given I've been working on the assumption that the Xmas (Grade 2 as it would be now) was still an option for horses like Tullyhill or Inthepocket. Feels like a really lobsided programme now - particularly as there's not much in the UK I don't think, with the Henry VIII also being right handed...
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You've got a few more options over here at Grade 2 level. The Arkle Trial at the November meeting (probably a little early for most), the Noel chase at Ascot in late Dec over 2m3, the Wayward Lad too. But as you say, all bar the Arkle Trial are RH.
 
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FredFlintstone said:
Many concerned Ballyburn holds a Hattons Grace entry?
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Not me. I hope he stays hurdling. I have some outstanding prices in the Arkle and BANC which no longer exist and will only shorten even more if Ballyburn stays hurdling. If Constitution Hill is back to his best then Ballyburn is only playing for place money anyway. H can't improve to that level. Walloping inferior competition in the Novice ranks is a different kettle of fish to going into a Champion Hurdle. I have got some good e/w roll ups in the Champion Hurdle so i would be more than happy to see that one play out.
 
Bookies benefit - he’ll be going chasing - it just means a few more CH dockets in the bin at Paddy’s HQ the longer they wait
 
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