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2025 Mares Hurdle

Can't Catch Me said:
Cheltenham Festival winners aren't the easiest things to come by. Im sure RR will gladly take another, in whatever race it is.
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She's already won twice at the Festival. A Mares adds nothing to her legacy.

There's two main issues for me:
1) She's won it already and is good enough to go the Champion where she'd probably go off 3rd fav. RR may regret not going to the Gold Cup with Vautour and he could regret not going for the Champion with Lossiemouth.
2) They've been adamant all year she goes the Champion. If she goes the Mares next year they should just not say anything about her and her target if they are going to swerve the more difficult race.

A Mares win would feel hollow to me but I'm sure RR will be delighted when Q throws a bag of shit over him.
 
Agree Denman. I still think she'll go Champion Hurdle.
 
Anyone that thinks she should go Mares really doesn’t care about the competitiveness of the sport.

In Kevs diary, this sums up his point about boring odds on shots and handicaps. Champion hurdle has the potential to be the race of the festival, but as is likely is just another match with one odds on.
 
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Craigy14 said:
Anyone that thinks she should go Mares really doesn’t care about the competitiveness of the sport.

.
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Whoah... Bit of a leap there Craigy! I care about the competitiveness of the sport. But connections have to what's right for each horse. We've still got a cracking Champion Hurdle.

Ultimately, in my opinion, If Paul Townend thought she would win the CH, she'd be running in it, and he'd be riding her.
 
Can't Catch Me said:
Whoah... Bit of a leap there Craigy! I care about the competitiveness of the sport. But connections have to what's right for each horse. We've still got a cracking Champion Hurdle.

Ultimately, in my opinion, If Paul Townend thought she would win the CH, she'd be running in it, and he'd be riding her.
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Do you think he thinks State Man can win this years Champion hurdle ?
I mean really ?
In his heart of hearts ?
Gun to the head ?

Without his lip quivering and his eyes going vacant in a blatant lie, I'd put all Paul Townend's money on it being a big fat NO.
But he will lie, unless he ends up riding Lossiemouth of course :highly_amused:
 
Quevega said:
Do you think he thinks State Man can win this years Champion hurdle ?
I mean really ?
In his heart of hearts ?
Gun to the head ?

Without his lip quivering and his eyes going vacant in a blatant lie, I'd put all Paul Townend's money on it being a big fat NO.
But he will lie, unless he ends up riding Lossiemouth of course :highly_amused:
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Not a chance! Which makes it even more likely he'd have wanted to ride Lossie to give himself the best chance of winning the race, no?
 
Can't Catch Me said:
Not a chance! Which makes it even more likely he'd have wanted to ride Lossie to give himself the best chance of winning the race, no?
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If Townend wants to ride Lossiemouth in the Champion hurdle then that's where she'll run IMO.

I think the issue is that he prefers State Man.

They are both up against it, but she has the better chance as the betting suggests.

I think State Man should go for the mares, he's only 2 letters off from being a mare anyway. State (Wo)man.
 
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Craigy14 said:
Anyone that thinks she should go Mares really doesn’t care about the competitiveness of the sport.

In Kevs diary, this sums up his point about boring odds on shots and handicaps. Champion hurdle has the potential to be the race of the festival, but as is likely is just another match with one odds on.
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Is it they don’t care, or simply understand that the owner would rather have a winner than a placed one at best?
Surely if RR really thought she had a decent chance of winning the CH she would be going there?
And anyway, she still might
 
Carnage at Taunton said:
Is it they don’t care, or simply understand that the owner would rather have a winner than a placed one at best?
Surely if RR really thought she had a decent chance of winning the CH she would be going there?
And anyway, she still might
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Ricci is a defeatist, which is why he wears a hat and sunglasses all year round.

This comment only stands if she goes to the mares under his instruction.
 
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Carnage at Taunton said:
Is it they don’t care, or simply understand that the owner would rather have a winner than a placed one at best?
Surely if RR really thought she had a decent chance of winning the CH she would be going there?
And anyway, she still might
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Doesn’t matter, as has been touched on, it can’t be about prize money, as place champion hurdle is worth more than the mares.

For the long term good of the sport she should be going champion hurdle. Why go for a race you’ve already won? She’s nothing to prove beating a bunch of mid 150 mares. It’s just really boring. When was the last time we had 4 160+ horses going for a champion hurdle? Who cares if he just wants a winner he’s had plenty, he’ll have plenty more no doubt. He’ll never know if she can win a champion hurdle by not running her in one.

Henderson didn’t have a winner last year, obviously he would have been bothered but ultimately he could be back stronger and has 4/5 top top chances this year if they all get there fit and ready. It’s a complete cop out.
 
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Can't Catch Me said:
Whoah... Bit of a leap there Craigy! I care about the competitiveness of the sport. But connections have to what's right for each horse. We've still got a cracking Champion Hurdle.

Ultimately, in my opinion, If Paul Townend thought she would win the CH, she'd be running in it, and he'd be riding her.
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I’ve more or less replied to CAT mate. What do you mean right by the horse though? Surely not going down the welfare with that? Why would Running her in the champion hurdle be any no different to the mares in terms of being right by her? accidents, bleeds etc can happen to any horse at any time in any race.

It’s similar to Fact To File, don’t want to digress this thread, but he should be going Gold Cup but again we have another fucking option for horses to cop out the top race. We should just have a Cheltenham prize giving week and the owners of Galopin just walk up and collect their prize. It’s just cop out mentality. Anything could happen in these races but you’ll never find out unless you run the horses in the race to find out.
 
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Craigy14 said:
Doesn’t matter, as has been touched on, it can’t be about prize money, as place champion hurdle is worth more than the mares.

For the long term good of the sport she should be going champion hurdle. Why go for a race you’ve already won? She’s nothing to prove beating a bunch of mid 150 mares. It’s just really boring. When was the last time we had 4 160+ horses going for a champion hurdle? Who cares if he just wants a winner he’s had plenty, he’ll have plenty more no doubt. He’ll never know if she can win a champion hurdle by not running her in one.

Henderson didn’t have a winner last year, obviously he would have been bothered but ultimately he could be back stronger and has 4/5 top top chances this year if they all get there fit and ready. It’s a complete cop out.
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I never mentioned prize money, just preference for a winner, if he feels she can’t win one race but can another .

End of the day I want to see the top races being as competitive as they can be, but don’t stop
me trying to understand why I ain’t getting what I want.
 
Craigy14 said:
I’ve more or less replied to CAT mate. What do you mean right by the horse though? Surely not going down the welfare with that? Why would Running her in the champion hurdle be any no different to the mares in terms of being right by her? accidents, bleeds etc can happen to any horse at any time in any race.

It’s similar to Fact To File, don’t want to digress this thread, but he should be going Gold Cup but again we have another fucking option for horses to cop out the top race. We should just have a Cheltenham prize giving week and the owners of Galopin just walk up and collect their prize. It’s just cop out mentality. Anything could happen in these races but you’ll never find out unless you run the horses in the race to find out.
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With re FTF, I think they have found out already!!
Is it cop out or realism?
 
Craigy14 said:
I’ve more or less replied to CAT mate. What do you mean right by the horse though? Surely not going down the welfare with that? Why would Running her in the champion hurdle be any no different to the mares in terms of being right by her? accidents, bleeds etc can happen to any horse at any time in any race.

It’s similar to Fact To File, don’t want to digress this thread, but he should be going Gold Cup but again we have another fucking option for horses to cop out the top race. We should just have a Cheltenham prize giving week and the owners of Galopin just walk up and collect their prize. It’s just cop out mentality. Anything could happen in these races but you’ll never find out unless you run the horses in the race to find out.
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By doing right by the horse, I mean she has a pretty bad prep, so why not take the easier option? This is the toughest CH for a long time. You'd want to know you had her tip top going into it. Going into this on the back of a fall is far from ideal. Surely anyone would agree with that? I cant believe that's even contentious tbh!

And as for FtF, Id be Ryanair all day :)
 
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Carnage at Taunton said:
With re FTF, I think they have found out already!!
Is it cop out or realism?
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Both, but having another option to cop out allows them to do it. He’s arguably been the second best staying chaser this year and won the BANC last year but because Galopin has beat him they’ve moved to an ‘easier’ assignment. Anything can happen in these races. It’s the only sport we allow it to happen and make more races for a lesser population of quality horses.
 
Craigy14 said:
Both, but having another option to cop out allows them to do it. He’s arguably been the second best staying chaser this year and won the BANC last year but because Galopin has beat him they’ve moved to an ‘easier’ assignment. Anything can happen in these races. It’s the only sport we allow it to happen and make more races for a lesser population of quality horses.
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There’s getting beat and getting beat
Getting beat at 3m by a horse that’s won gold cups going away is telling them they have no chance over 3m 2
And they have a Grade 1 that’s more suitable.
Similar in a way scenario as Lossiemouth really.
I get no pleasure at seeing horses struggling and getting well beat.
As an owner be even worse i imagine
So a more suitable race for my horse that’s a bit lower in prestige but still a grade 1, yep I would be fine with that.
 
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I wonder if we might see some defections now lossie is here, july flower / jetara stayers ,kala coral cup , theres a few with double entries...
 
Carnage at Taunton said:
With re FTF, I think they have found out already!!
Is it cop out or realism?
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The problem I have (and I'm not meaning to be arsey) with your general tone and opinions on this sort of subject.

Is you seem to be suggesting that many race's are foregone conclusions in respect of some horses chances.

And therefore you feel that it is understandable that trainers and owners follow this train of thought, and look for easier options.

I do understand this viewpoint to some degree, as it's quite natural.

However, if this sort of attitude seeped too much into the Sport, then we would not really have a sport.
And I think that's the point the other side of the argument is making, and why many feel that the Sport itself should manage this issue better (by moving the mares race for example)

I get that you have your own opinion on if a horse can win a race or not and the owners and trainers will do also.
But I also get that both they and yourself (and all of us on here) are wrong about this more than we're right.

Otherwise you'd have won that much money you wouldn't be talking to bell-ends like me on here most days, and neither would I.
 
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