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2022 Gold Cup

  • Thread starter Thread starter Deleted member 4957
  • Start date Start date
Bunkoffearly said:
Never got the respect he deserves because he doesn’t like or is not suited by a certain racecourse with a festival in March - Kemboy that is
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He still did better in the Gold Cup than Champ and, last season, he won a G1 while Champ managed 2nd in a G2.

To be fair, there need be no discussion of Kemboy's chances in the Gold Cup this season but some highly respected members seem far more enamoured with RPRs than I have ever been.
 
archie said:
He still did better in the Gold Cup than Champ and, last season, he won a G1 while Champ managed 2nd in a G2.

To be fair, there need be no discussion of Kemboy's chances in the Gold Cup this season but some highly respected members seem far more enamoured with RPRs than I have ever been.
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At the higher end i find them pretty pointless, but i do think they're useful in some instances like handicaps where a horse has been running in their wrong conditions for sometime and the RPRs provide a quick reference to roughly what they can be capable of on their desired going etc. Nothing to swear by but having used RP for years now i've found them a small part useful.
 
archie said:
He still did better in the Gold Cup than Champ and, last season, he won a G1 while Champ managed 2nd in a G2.

To be fair, there need be no discussion of Kemboy's chances in the Gold Cup this season but some highly respected members seem far more enamoured with RPRs than I have ever been.
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I haven't trawled through the pages so I'm unsure what your gripe is.
Champ, as far as I can see, achieved RPR of 170 when winning the RSA and as a result was given an OR of 165.
Kemboy achieved his highest RPR of 174 on three occasions, his highest OR achieved was 177.

Kemboy clearly a superior horse, but very few people will have needed to check RPRs or ORs to reach that conclusion....
 
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archie said:
Fans of RPRs might like to explain how Champ is rated higher than Kemboy!
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He isn't.

Kemboy's peak rating is 174, a number that he's hit 3 times all different courses. He also has a bunch of ratings within a few pounds of that, and you'd be fairly confident that at his best he's going to run to it.

Champ's peak rating is 170. He hit it for the first time in the RSA where I believe he was given a rating a few pounds too high. I'd have had it low 160's. He won the race because of Minella Indo and Allaho going too hard, and he benefited because teh pace collapsed and they didn't see it out. He then hit 170 over two miles at Newbury beating Sceau Royal which was a highly dubious rating. The ground was advertised as good to soft that day, but all the times were fast, and again at best I could have given him low 160's. Outside those two races Champ hasn't even hit 160, which also suggests hitting numbers in the 170's is unlikely.

Kemboy at his best is somewhere in the region of 12 pounds better than Champ in my opinion.

RPR's are a good guide, but taking the numbers without watching the races they were achieved in, and being able to assess them makes them nothing more than something to draw your eye to.
 
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Istabraq said:
That doesn't correlate with the ratings given after each run archie so either an error (unlikely) or there's some sort of adjusted ratings shown on that card...
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As I understand it, they do them on the best of the last 6 runs (without any timeframe) and adjust them to a standard weight (12st here). In that period, Kemboy's best RPR is 169 for a G1 win and second. Champ got 170 for the RSA and for coming second in a G2. They carry 11-12 in the Savills so you add 2 to both ratings for the race rating.

Spectre has meticulously unpicked their logic.
 
archie said:
As I understand it, they do them on the best of the last 6 runs (without any timeframe) and adjust them to a standard weight (12st here). In that period, Kemboy's best RPR is 169 for a G1 win and second. Champ got 170 for the RSA and for coming second in a G2. They carry 11-12 in the Savills so you add 2 to both ratings for the race rating.

Spectre has meticulously unpicked their logic.
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Trust me, you have the better horse...
 
archie said:
As I understand it, they do them on the best of the last 6 runs (without any timeframe) and adjust them to a standard weight (12st here). In that period, Kemboy's best RPR is 169 for a G1 win and second. Champ got 170 for the RSA and for coming second in a G2. They carry 11-12 in the Savills so you add 2 to both ratings for the race rating.

Spectre has meticulously unpicked their logic.
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I really like the race result RPRs as you can add your own context to them (similar to what Spectre suggested), but I've never used the racecard ones because I've always found them to not feel right and didn't know what the calculations behind them were. If what you've said is true and they are your benchmark for what an RPR is, I would have exactly the same view as you - calculating them like that with no timeframe or context is absolutely ridiculous!
 
Bonjers said:
In a shock to everyone, as other horses have the cheek to go to Aintree this weekend, Champ won't be running.
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did he actually give a reason as to why? Ground will be perfect, trip fine, his back must be fine now.. ? Pathetic really.
 
darlojim said:
did he actually give a reason as to why? Ground will be perfect, trip fine, his back must be fine now.. ? Pathetic really.
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Got to agree with you here, shocking stuff. I defended the Shishkin decision, but this is poor.

I actually think Champ is going to go over hurdles this season.
 
For everyone defending Henderson, his reason for not running is that "he wants some easier ground"

The ground is currently soft G/S in places, pissing down right now and 8mm more due on Friday.

All I can say is I'm baffled..
 
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Star De Mohaison said:
Got to agree with you here, shocking stuff. I defended the Shishkin decision, but this is poor.

I actually think Champ is going to go over hurdles this season.
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Henderson mentions in The Sporting life piece that he will be in the Long Walk....

“We put him in the Long Walk Hurdle which is going to be interesting because Buzz is going there, On The Blind Side is almost certainly going there. It is possible, but as you saw in the Gold Cup we’ve got to get his jumping right.

“When he schools tomorrow we’ll decide which route to take."
 
“We put him in the Long Walk Hurdle which is going to be interesting because Buzz is going there, On The Blind Side is almost certainly going there. It is possible, but as you saw in the Gold Cup we’ve got to get his jumping right.

:grief:
This statement.
What the Fuck ?

Probably indicates his jumping at home has been worse than I Am Maximus. :rolleyes:
 
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he did confirm chantry house for King george at least
 
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