jack1092
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Yep, it’s quoted in weights and measures on Sporting Life
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Yep, it’s quoted in weights and measures on Sporting Life
Atlantic Viking
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I've got all the time in the World for petty shithousery like this, all adds to the build up, lovely stuff! Lets hope it's all the start of a great rivalry, so long as Shishkin wins this round of course :highly_amused:
Middle_Of_March
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I’ve just been catching up with this thread and I think this is an excellent point to consider. Have an arrow of appreciation.
Lobos
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Energumene is still yet to run over hurdles/Chase on anything better than Soft/Heavy. I do have my doubts about him on proper Spring ground. Even G/S on the Tuesday will be "quicker' than he's ever encountered over regulation hurdles/fences. If it came up a Soft ground Fez then I'd make him fav
For him to be fav, Shishkin would surely need to be proven as "bad" of "soft"....and he isn't, he won the Supreme in a "Soft ground Fez"
robith
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For my 2p Townsend spent last year settling into his new role as The Man - i think the Friday of the fest last year really helped settle him in, and now he's flying.
Nico to my uneducated eye has cut a frustrated figure this year perhaps in part due to Hendo losing the plot. I think he'll be bang up for the Arkle as he doesn't have many more better chances - perhaps even why he's been so great on him this season
Nico to my uneducated eye has cut a frustrated figure this year perhaps in part due to Hendo losing the plot. I think he'll be bang up for the Arkle as he doesn't have many more better chances - perhaps even why he's been so great on him this season
Lobos
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Think most would agree he is the speedier type of the two though Kev. Proper Soft ground would favour Energumene more.
Plenty of people have mentioned Shishkin could get a trip though, it wasn't clear cut he'd go Supreme was it on breeding?
If it's "soft" which is not unlikely at all, I think there's still no chance Energumene goes off fav. Shishkin seems perfectly on soft, in fact his best performances are on "soft".
If it's "Heavy", they might be closer together, but even then, Shishkin has an 11L on Heavy too....
Lobos
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Not sure his trainer would agree. I want Shishkin to win but I'd see it very tight on Soft or worse. Think you are on your own there Kev.
Nortons who
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In respect of the Shishkin versus Energumene debate, isn't it perhaps more relevant that Energumene hss no Cheltenham Course experience whereas Shishkin has already won there. It's just a slight unkown currently for E until the day.
On my own in thinking Shishkin will go off favourite in the Arkle on 'soft'?
Or on my own that people thought he could have gone in the Ballymore?
You're on one of your scatter gun, spouting nonsense evenings again I see :highly_amused:
Yep a fair point you make with an interesting twist. Only one horse has won the Arkle since 2010 with no prior course experience - Un De Sceaux, half brother to Energumene! Obviously nothing in it with a stat like that, but just interesting how things happen sometimes!
DenmanSacre
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I think Shishkin would be favourite on any going. He's been the ante post favourite since last March, won his races convincingly and is the Supreme winner. Casual bettors will be betting on him as the banker of day 1.
If he gets beat on the day and its soft or worse, it won't be because of a lack of stamina. He won the Sidney Banks over 2 and a half against a horse that has proven this year to be pretty decent and ran through the line.
What do we expect the sps for these 2? I’m yet to cover Energ and at the prices I’m struggling for an angle but have shiskin in early doubles with chacun, monkfish and envoi so I think I may just have to risk not covering as there’s not much of way in at 9/4. Anyone else in the same boat?
Yep, Energumene caught me out and don't have a bean on.
I'll wait until the day and look at handicap/distance/match bets, should be a match between between the two market leaders so if you have a nice position on Shishkin then barring in race chaos it should only be Energumene that can finish ahead of Hendo's horse...
Carnage at Taunton
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I think Shishkin would be fav on any going as well. It is certainly reasonable to suggest however that the race could be a lot closer in soft/heavy, just because thats what can happen in that sort of going. We know both horses act on soft/heavy, and Shishkin goes on any ground. Energumene has run pretty much on soft or heavy aside from one Bumper on yielding, and a PTP on good.
To be honest if i was in big on Shishkin, i would probably be more confident going into the race if ground was good/soft or better, and the reverse with Energumene.
But really it will probably be decided by whose the best, whatever the going, and its great for me looking forward to the race, that we dont know which is the better horse.
charlie
Fat Jockey Patron (est. March 2021)
Energumene is great for this market for those that want to back Shishkin on the day. Had he not emerged as a main rival Shishkin would have gone off 1/4 I reckon. Now he's EVS in places, and if money comes on the day for Energumene and the bookies try to get Shishkin beat, there may even be some 5/4 knocking about.
True, but I’d say there are far more people who have Shishkin covered already (at 5/1 or bigger) and are looking to get Energumene onside...
Shiskin having to dig deep in the supreme was down to being outpaced and making a few jumping mistakes , luckily his engine and class saw him through, I dont think you can mark energ down for not having been in a battle.
Until his injury sprinter was never in a hard race because he was just to good, maybe this is the case with this fella as well. I'm not for one minute Comparing him to sprinter though!!!
The Skelton horse is going to make sure this is a arkle run at a crazy pace, I think it will purely come down to jumping, energ has looked foot perfect so far, his section times have been fantastic for a novice and has not once come off the bridle because he has a very high crushing speed.
I still think shiskin will have to much speed from 2 out it just all depends whether shiskin jumps well enough having to run at a speed quicker than any of his previous chases have been run at to be in contention at the top of the hill.
Energ may not have been in a battle but he quickens to the line everytime,he will be running and jumping at a speed familiar to him where as shiskin is going to have to do something that he hasn't had to do before in a fiercely run race.
Cant wait, I want shiskin to win and still believe he is the real deal, on the bridle coming to the last hopefully!!!
Without doubt going to be the highlight of day one for me.
Priceiskey
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Just on the jockey bit, I don’t think it will make much difference in this race. All Nico has to do is sit no more than about 4-5 lengths off Energumene who should be no more than a couple of the Skelton horse. The horse should then just take him to those two as the race really starts to develop around 2 out. It’s then whether Shiskin is good enough which I think he is. If they all jump well I’d hope Shiskin has the boot to pass them up the hill. Certainly not the gimme it looked a few weeks ago though.
Nico wouldn’t be in the top 15 jockeys in Uk and Ireland for me. Watching him riding a horse that is a keen goer he can’t switch it off. Barry Geragty, Ruby Davy etc could just switch a horse off in seconds and that makes a huge difference in these big races. If you put Nico on some of the horse’s mentioned like Annie power Vautour, Faugheen would he of won? Possibly but Ruby rode those off the front with a clock in his head going the perfect pace and kicking at the perfect time. Nico could of held them up and got them beat. More I have watched Nico lately the more I question is he top class? Riding for a top yard you want a Davy, Kennedy Townend or Cobden. Nico isn’t in that class for me.
Nico wouldn’t be in the top 15 jockeys in Uk and Ireland for me. Watching him riding a horse that is a keen goer he can’t switch it off. Barry Geragty, Ruby Davy etc could just switch a horse off in seconds and that makes a huge difference in these big races. If you put Nico on some of the horse’s mentioned like Annie power Vautour, Faugheen would he of won? Possibly but Ruby rode those off the front with a clock in his head going the perfect pace and kicking at the perfect time. Nico could of held them up and got them beat. More I have watched Nico lately the more I question is he top class? Riding for a top yard you want a Davy, Kennedy Townend or Cobden. Nico isn’t in that class for me.