2017 Albert Bartlett Novices

[DeeBee]

Death Duty and Invitation Only entered against each other at the weekend.

What distance kss? Mullins must really think highly of io to pitch him up against DD again which has to be a positive

Ignore me - I must have been on page 1 but got all excited when reading it thinking it was a rematch! I'll go back to sleep

 

[Kevloaf]

Not sure he'll get his ideal conditions at the fez if NTD is right...

"...we came here as we were hoping for the softer ground.

He's a good galloper and the rain helped."

Interesting...

Jacob added: "Wholestone has been an improving horse all year.

"I was a little bit worried about coming back to two and a half miles today but fair play to Simon, Isaac, Nigel and Anthony (Bromley - racing manager). They knew the rain was coming and it was a good test for him out there today.

"He just seems to keep improving and improving. He is just a lovely horse - he doesn't do anything flash, he doesn't do anything quick but he is a typical Nigel horse. They are very, very hardy type of horses.

"I think the Albert Bartlett at The Festival could be the race for him if we get good ground. I am not going to tell my bosses what to do - they have mastered this horse from the start of the year and all credit to them."

 

[Mon Brav]

We saw the winner of the Albert Bartlett yesterday...I think Wholestone looks the real deal, he will be shorter than 8's on the day.

 

[Kevloaf]

Still 20 available for Wholestone. 1 error today but can't not be impressed with him.... keeps getting to the front and hasn't been headed.

UNWIMH won the race last year and was under rated all season...

11th December.... didn't get much love at the time for this but he has KEPT doing things right.... big big player now... one of the best clashes between UK and IRE as it stands?

 

[Mon Brav]

What a great shout that was Kev...knew very little about the horse before the weekend, so your on?

 

[Kevloaf]

Not for a lot, but I have backed at 20s (or 16s) can't check.

I do have him in a double with Messire Des Obeaux in the Neptune who is another unsexy horse but I figured they both have guts, will definitely be kept apart and jockeys can get on a roll if confidence is up and D.Jacob seems to be one of those kinda riders... one winner in the week might lead to another...

 

[Mytentoryours1]

It would be nice if they took a few hurdles out again in March. Also a big fan of Wholestone and got him at 16/1. He is capable of jumping well but he throws in a few scruffy leaps in his races.

 

[jono]

So both Wholestone and West Approach showing that formline is incredibly strong in this division once again. It's interesting how the markets have prized the pair up.

I actually backed (and kept backing!) West Approach in his first 3 runs this season at Cheltenham and there's certainly a case to be made for him on each run..

October - Over 3m - Beaten 1/2 length by Wholestone BUT was giving the winner 3lbs
November - 2m4 - Wholestone beats him again (this time level weights) by 3.5L but both behind Peregrine Run BUT trip too short for his best
December - Back up to 3m - level weights - held up in the rear, making good progress before huge error ended any chance

Then add in 2 really strong runs in open company means I can't knock anyone fancying him or him being high up in the betting but surely now you'd have to side with Wholestone between the pair? I really struggle to see him reversing the form with Wholestone so surprised to see him at the same price (8's) - even more so when William Hill have him 4's (compared to Wholestone at 7's)

Push comes to shove i'd side with his fella between the 2.

Death Duty will have a real fight on his hands

 

[Kevloaf]

West Approach must come into the reckoning ?

If they could get Ruby Id be backer.

Lets Dance his ride or something else iyos.

IF they did get Ruby, West pproach be shorter than Wholestone and you'd HAVE to back them both?

So many mares to split up, surely one of them goes here? Let's Dance would have a say too.... this could be a cracking race couldn't it!


Agree with jono in the post above too...

 

[Cashew King]

Wholestone going straight to this according to Bromley...

"The idea now is to go for the Albert Bartlett. He's won over three miles twice and has won at Cheltenham three times so we're happy to keep going there.

"He won't run again beforehand and his form ties in very closely with West Approach, who finished third in the Cleeve.

"Those two look to be the two leading British contenders for the Albert Bartlett."

 

[Buckolad]

I have just messaged will hill to put lets dance in their antepost market for this race and they have at 6/1!!

you can get 12/1 elsewhere but will hill have a great offer on of money back as free bet if it runs in another race or money back as cash if it doesn't make the festival so thought id try my luck.

 

[Kevloaf]

That is a shame Buckolad. (Welcome).

Rubbish price. Absolutely rubbish at 6/1. I genuinely think she'll be bigger than that on the day! DD, Wholestone and West Approach will all be shorter in my ever so humble opinion.

 

[Cashew King]

The handicapper reckons West Approach is 12lbs better than Wholestone - really ?

Albert Bartlett hopes on trial
West Approach >>>> Up 8lb to 157
Wholestone >>>> Up 6lb to 145

Who ran the best Albert Bartlett trial on Saturday, Neptune trial winner Wholestone or Cleeve Hurdle third West Approach?

It's a tough one and the bookies thought so too, cutting both horses to 8/1 for the three-mile novice hurdle at the Festival.

The handicapper has taken a firm view, though, with a massive 12lb separating the duo on official ratings following Saturday's contests.

West Approach, Thistlecrack's half-brother, is considered a 157 horse now after his excellent third in the Cleeve. He had a host of seasoned campaigners in behind and he beat them well, even if he was receiving at least a bit of weight from most of them.

He was also the beneficiary of a super Ruby Walsh ride, but, even so, this was a terrific effort from a novice. He looked like he might even have a winning chance at the bottom of the hill.

Meanwhile, in the Neptune trial, Daryl Jacob utilised Wholestone's proven stamina with a confident ride off the front end that enabled him to see off a posse of promising horses.

Raised 6lb to 145, it's highly likely he'll step back up in trip for the Albert Bartlett at the Festival and, while he's considered 12lb inferior to West Approach after that horse's progression, he has already beaten him twice in novice hurdles at Cheltenham this season.

All in all, the discrepancy between the two looks too big. But that's what can happen when you run novices in open company. Hopefully we'll see the pair fight it out in the Albert Bartlett where we'll get a much more accurate reflection of their relative abilities.

 

[Faugheen_Machine]

I'd be very confident Wholestone would beat West Approach off level weights, never mind receiving 12lb.

 

[mayo]

I'd be very confident Wholestone would beat West Approach off level weights, never mind receiving 12lb.[/QUOTE

Agree FM. Wholestone very impressive - DJ does like to ride them out to the line.

 

[Cashew King]

The handicapper reckons West Approach is 12lbs better than Wholestone - really?

It seems timeform are in the West Approach camp too - by 7lbs!

"West Approach caught the eye in finishing third under a patient ride, and this was a career-best for him (now rated h155). There was an element of him picking up the pieces late on, but he is a smart novice and a leading contender for the Albert Bartlett should connections drop him back in to novice company.
It seems as though Wholestone will be heading for the Albert Bartlett after he won the Classic Novices’ Hurdle on the card, and though he didn’t impress in quite the same way that Yanworth did in the race last season, he progressed again (now rated h148p) and there is a lot to like about his attitude."

 

[mayo]

Having a talented sibling can lead to over rating...

 

[Zoowraa]

Handicapper doesn't really have much choice though in fairness. It was going to beat 150+ horses at Ascot off level weights, it then comes out and splits a 152 and 160 something next time out. I think the 149 was fair assessment after Ascot and it's backed it up with more improvement so it has to be 150+ after Saturday.
I don't think there is much between Wholestone and West Approach, certainly not what the handicapper has, but the ratings are skewed due to the races West Approach has ran in.
Would like to see them meet again as I think it's quite a close match between them.

 

[Kevloaf]

I wish they'd price it up with Wholestone much bigger of the two!

Could be a bit of a waste of time comparing them, because a novice never gets the chance get get a higher rating unless they do it in open company. The "fact" would be that if Wholestone ran in the race as well, he would have finished in-and-around where West Approach did and therefore have a similar rating.

Every season there are probably novices who are actually just as good as the older horses... I'm sure Altior is actually better than he has a mark of over fences, and if he runs against Fox Norton, he'll get "recognised" for it... it is all relative to who you run against and doesnt ACTUALLY affect the horses ability. The horses in the Albert Bartlett certainly won't know which is rated higher.

 

[Buckolad]

That is a shame Buckolad. (Welcome).

Rubbish price. Absolutely rubbish at 6/1. I genuinely think she'll be bigger than that on the day! DD, Wholestone and West Approach will all be shorter in my ever so humble opinion.

I was just hoping they'd be daft enough to go 12/1 as id of jumped on it. I agree with most opinions that wholestone and west approach will be tough to beat and death duty will have to be something really special given that he's not run over the 3mile trip as yet never mind at Cheltenham.

on form ( and Cheltenham form ) wholestone is a solid each way punt.

I only stumbled across this site a few weeks ago but reading all the guys input has been great. sometimes backing my thoughts up on a horse and other times bringing me down to earth from my big win antepost dreams to make me look at my selections from another angle.

eitherway im enjoying it and will post when I can. I am going to the haydock preview evening and to the hollow bottom in winchcombe the night before Cheltenham so any info I get I will pass on.