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2016 World Hurdle

Grade1 said:
You make a good point about the horses he has beaten. Annie P is blue across the boards on oddschecker today.
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I just noticed the blue for AP. Not good for most of us. :sorrow:

Cole Harden has valid excuses, though I think he would still get beat by TC on spring ground. Last years WH was probably one of the worst line ups for years.
 
think its harsh to try and criticise thistlecrack, if the horse was trained by mullins, nicholls, hendo even jonjo he would probably at least be shades of odds on, thistlecrack has won all the trials, beaten whats been put in front of him and to be fair wont be up against much different on the day, there's only a few slight possibilities to his demise; the irish form of Alpha Des Obeaux is better than that of the English trials, unlikely...., nicholls performs a training master class with Aux ptits Soins and wins at the festival 1st time out for the second year running or another master class with Saphir Du Rheu reverting back to hurdles and his breathing op has done miracles, apart from that it maybe leaves kilcooley with an impressive run last time out but would need soft ground and to probably improve at least another 6lb, for me none of this happens and Thistlecrack is festival banker for the English!!
 
gjt7756 said:
think its harsh to try and criticise thistlecrack, if the horse was trained by mullins, nicholls, hendo even jonjo he would probably at least be shades of odds on, thistlecrack has won all the trials, beaten whats been put in front of him and to be fair wont be up against much different on the day, there's only a few slight possibilities to his demise; the irish form of Alpha Des Obeaux is better than that of the English trials, unlikely...., nicholls performs a training master class with Aux ptits Soins and wins at the festival 1st time out for the second year running or another master class with Saphir Du Rheu reverting back to hurdles and his breathing op has done miracles, apart from that it maybe leaves kilcooley with an impressive run last time out but would need soft ground and to probably improve at least another 6lb, for me none of this happens and Thistlecrack is festival banker for the English!!
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Whoever WM puts up will surley give TC a good race, so I don't see TC being a banker just yet.

Cole Harden was beaten 15L pre 2014 WH and still went on to win. He was beaten 6.5L this time around.
 
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cole harden for me is an enigma, yes if he turned up on the day he could cause problems, but he won weak renewal last year and I don't believe you can go looking at the distance he got beat last year before the race to this years for comparison, that's a terrible guide to his well being plus your talking about two completely different races and opposition, just to see where you are heading with your point his last run before 2015 WH he was over 15 lengths behind saphir du rheu ay chelt in January, his last run this year was 20 lengths behind camping ground over 4 furlong shorter also at chelt in january, the race your referring to this term where he was beat over 6 lengths by thistlecrack was at newbury and back in November so it's not even the same race you are comparing there
 
and in fact the race he has been beaten in this term by camping ground by over 20 lengths on new years day he did run in the same race in 2015 but was only beaten just under 3 lengths by rock on ruby so if you wanted to go by distance beaten he is surely in worse form this season, and through a form line if you consider thistlecrack hammered camping ground by 26 lengths last time out then he has some advantage over cole harden, anyways we will wait to the day, one of us will be right and the other the unlucky looser... fingers crossed this doesn't come back in my face :confused:
 
A lot of fannying around the issue here lads. Thistlecrack trained by Willie and ridden by Ruby would be odds on...hard to have the same faith in Tizzards and Scudamore.
 
gjt7756 said:
think its harsh to try and criticise thistlecrack, if the horse was trained by mullins, nicholls, hendo even jonjo he would probably at least be shades of odds on, thistlecrack has won all the trials, beaten whats been put in front of him and to be fair wont be up against much different on the day, there's only a few slight possibilities to his demise; the irish form of Alpha Des Obeaux is better than that of the English trials, unlikely...., nicholls performs a training master class with Aux ptits Soins and wins at the festival 1st time out for the second year running or another master class with Saphir Du Rheu reverting back to hurdles and his breathing op has done miracles, apart from that it maybe leaves kilcooley with an impressive run last time out but would need soft ground and to probably improve at least another 6lb, for me none of this happens and Thistlecrack is festival banker for the English!!
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That was exactly my initial point, trained by any of the above and he would be odds on and up there with Douvan, faugheen, min and annie power as a festival banker!! And he is one of my bankers, took him at all sorts of prices and would be gutted if he was turned over
 
I hope TC does win for everyone here that has backed him including myself in multi's. Though you cannot get precious about a horse just because you have backed him because this is racing at the end of the day. My point was he not a banker just yet until the likes of WM shows his hand. If AP bolts up at Punchestown and ran in this (which I hope not) I know I would be backing her with the allowance.
 
On annie powers best form she still has 8lb to find with Thistlecrack, yes she will be receiving 7lb from him with weight allowance but say she does run this coming week she'll be having her second run of the year, you can't be sure how she's going to act and overall Thistlecrack has the more progressive profile having less runs over hurdles and rules than annie power, you could argue that looking at her last sort of 5 runs her form has sort of levelled out, yes she probably hasn't hit the ceiling yet it terms of progression but when you look at Thistlecracks last 5 runs you can see the clear progressive form and he's done all of that without coming of the bridle so you would have to say his ceiling is higher, I'm excited by the fact he's going chasing next year with the reports coming from tizzard but i really feel this horse could dominate the staying hurdling division for a few years and won multiple world hurdles
 
I heard TC has been jumping the larger obsticles at home really well. So something tells me he could be galloping all over Cue Card is why they decided to make the switch?
 
loveracing said:
I heard TC has been jumping the larger obsticles at home really well. So something tells me he could be galloping all over Cue Card is why they decided to make the switch?
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I dont like that - concentrate on the first thing.
 
Tizzard said in an interview the other day that they are not a hurdling yard and they buy horses specifically to go over fences and if he didn't run well over hurdles first time out this season then he could have easily gone over fences this season as he had already schooled over them, which to be fair is common with a lot of horses these days and something i know paul nicholls does a lot with his hurdlers as well unless it is clear the horses career remains over hurdles they will be schooled over fences then go novice chasing in their second season with him
 
According to Tizzard TC is their 2017 Gold cup horse, that would mean being trained for the GC in his novice chase year, hence the extra schooling this season I reckon
 
He's already 8 yrs old so if they are going to go over fences, it makes sense to go straight for the Gold Cup....well it does to me.
 
I dont like trainers getting ahead of themselves. Talking about the 2017 Gold Cup just makes it sound that the World Hurdle is already in the bag. Very few horses can mix hurdles and fences - they just end up jumping big and slow when they go back to hurdles.
 
I agree Mayo, I dont know if its arrogance or just being totally confident in your horse but the Tizzards have set themselves up for a fall re Thistlecrack with their talk of Gold Cups when they havent won the World hurdle as yet.And now the strong possibilty that Annie Power may stand in their way of the World hurdle!!
 
I always like to try 2nd guess the trainers and I cannot see why WM would not have this race in mind 11 months ago. He has 12 months to train a horse to run in this race and by switching KV to over fences makes me think he has something up his sleeve.
In everyones eyes KV must have been his best 3m hurdler? So there must be one under the radar that beats KV over 3m everyday.
 
loveracing said:
I always like to try 2nd guess the trainers and I cannot see why WM would not have this race in mind 11 months ago. He has 12 months to train a horse to run in this race and by switching KV to over fences makes me think he has something up his sleeve.
In everyones eyes KV must have been his best 3m hurdler? So there must be one under the radar that beats KV over 3m everyday.
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Segal - about a month ago

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PFNicholls

"Thistlecrack has been very impressive on soft ground, but if it dries up at Cheltenham it is going to make things a bit different, he does look very solid, though.

"Saphir Du Rheu was second in the race last year. He does want better ground so don't rule him out as he is going very nicely at home.

"I've just got a feeling that he will show the best of his form if the ground dries up."

Nicholls also has a second potential World Hurdle challenger in the form of Aux Ptits Soins.

The John Hales-owned gelding has not been seen in competitive action since winning the Coral Cup at last year's Festival.

"Aux Ptits Soins did a really good gallop at Wincanton last week. The problem with him is that he has had three lots of surgery and an anaesthetic in the autumn and that is just in the back of my mind," said the Ditcheat handler.

"Its been hard training him. He came back on January 1. Whereas last year we started with a big, strong horse, he has been very lean and we've had to do it the reverse way with him.

"It would be no surprise if he ran a very big race."
 
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