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2016 Gold Cup

So, can we debate again now, the bookies appear to think the Ryanair is the target for Vautour, and Mullins agrees that there is suggestion of doubt about his stamina. Also last week I heard Ruby say that he would quite possibly have won the Tingle creek, suggesting that 2m races have been discussed
 
Yes Vautour would have won that Tingle Creek but then so would Un De Sceaux if he had ran.In no way has any of Vautours connections suggested the Queen Mother was being considered as a target for the horse.Today we saw a great King George race, presumably Cue Card heads now for Gold Cup, why then should Vautour not follow.He stayed the trip most people would agree with that surely,if Djackadam contiues to win his races then Ricci has a decision to make, run 1 or 2 in Gold Cup, and we wont find out till two days before the race.I think theyll decide to go with two.
 
Yes Iain, you think that, others aren't convinced, that's debate. As for staying the trip that's something else that's debateable, even Mullins said he has doubts, maybe they won't go for the QM, maybe they will go for the Gold cup, that's why we enjoy the discussion, somebody will be right in the end, I think there are still 3 alternative targets for Vautour, hand on heart I think the Ryanair is now the most likely, but if Djakadam gets hammered in the Lexus, or gets injured I would then agree with you that the Gold cup would move back to centre stage, all is possible with 10 weeks to go
 
I hope they don't go for the easy option and take the Ryanair route but to my eye he didn't quite see out the 3 miles yesterday. To counter that - he took a keen hold, probably wasn't in peak condition and didn't jump as fluently as he can.

I have no doubt that he'd win the Champion Chase - if only UDS and Vautour weren't in the same stable!
 
I agree its now debatable having seen the KG.Before yesterdays race it was pointless guessing which race Vautour would be best suited for.It will be interesting to hear Ruby's thoughts.Did Vautour blow up a little in between the last two fences..possible..was he in peak condition or has Mullins left a little to work on,his first race in open company in a grade 1 against a hard fit seasoned campaigner like Cue Card was for me a great performance, factor in hes exceptional at Cheltenham in the spring...yes its debatable now and I respect all opinions.
 
Just a point, Faugheen...Un De Sceaux against Vautour...you have no doubt Vautour would win the Champion Chase if they were to run against each other or Vautour would in Champion Chase without Un De Sceaux? Un De Sceaux for me anytime in that match up.
 
willie

"He did everything right bar the last 20 yards," said Mullins. "He probably didn't jump the last as efficiently as he could have. It probably looks like his stamina ebbed away. We'll wait and see what we have to run in it [the Gold Cup]. I won't be taking him out because of that."
 
Yes OV, I heard that comment from Wullie Mullins and that was his intial thoughts re stamina ebbing away but that comment was before he had got Rubys debrief.It may be the case that Ruby concurrs with those thoughts or maybe he felt the horse just tired.For me if a horse gets beat a short head after 3 miles then its stayed the trip for me, I wonder had Vautour fallen two out a la Don Cossack and the Don nutted Cue Card on the line would punters argue Cue Card hadnt stayed...I doubt it.
 
I have no doubt that Vautour would win the Champion Chase, even with UDS in the field.

Shame we'd never get the chance to see it though.
 
I would fancy Vautour in a match with UDS, but I wouldn't bet the house on it, there's just something about UDS that doesn't do it for me and I can't put my finger on what that is, it's not like he's done anything wrong
 
Ted Walsh on RTE on re Lexus winner Don Poli - "Djakadam would have him for breakfast"

( meaning Djakadam now considered No1 Gold Cup prospect in Walsh househould ?)


What will Bryan Cooper ride in the Gold Cup?
 
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The King George form is the best form on offer so far, timeform revised ratings after that race...Don Cossack 183, Cue Card 181 and interestingly Vautour 180P,......Djackadam on 171 so has a bit to prove yet and is a false fav for Gold Cup in my book.Perhaps Djackadam no 1 Gold Cup prospect in Ted Walsh household but pretty sure its Vautour in Ruby Walsh household and timeform experts seem to agree.
 
Gold Cup line up :D

Ruby on Djakadam ( all blue today)
Brennan on Cue Card.
Cooper will ride Don Cossack.
David Mullins on Don Poli.
Carberry on Road to Riches.
Townend on Vautour.
Wayne on Smad Place.
Russell on Sir Des Champs.
Fehily or Geraghty on OFaolains Boy

anything else?
 
I think Ruby will try to influence the choice of target for Vautour as he won't want to give up the ride but his head must be telling him that Djakadam is the one of those two guaranteed to stay the trip. It's often been mentioned that Ruby would try to keep UDS and Vautour apart so why not these, even more so given they are under the same ownership, the bookies must think the same given the prices now on offer for the Ryanair.
 
Yeehaa said:
Gold Cup line up :D

Ruby on Djakadam ( all blue today)
Brennan on Cue Card.
Cooper will ride Don Cossack.
David Mullins on Don Poli.
Carberry on Road to Riches.
Townend on Vautour.
Wayne on Smad Place.
Russell on Sir Des Champs.
Fehily or Geraghty on OFaolains Boy

anything else?
Click to expand...

Foxrock, First Lieutenant, On his own? I'm not sure you could rule any of them out completely, surely have to consider them if you're putting Sir Des Champs in the mix
 
On His Own looks like a serious Grand National candidate to me, his Gold Cup chance I think came in a poor renewal when just denied in 2014.
Many Clouds proved that weight is no longer a barrier with the way they set the National course up these days, a thorough stayer is what's required as the smaller obstacles allows them all to go that much quicker, On His Own will be rated around the 160 mark which would probably give him around 11st 8lb or thereabouts.

Besides, there already looks to be a significant Irish presence heading for the Blue Riband....
 
I just mention those three because Sir Des Champs was in mayos list and all 3 looked brighter prospects in the Lexus. I heard an interview with Paddy Brennan on atr this morning and he's very bullish, he said he will not have a problem getting the trip
 
They would all be worthwhile of a place in the line up Mr M, problem is in such a strong year they could run the race of their life and finish 6th.
These heavy ground Irish races are often run at a false pace and the distance between horses doesn't always show the superiority that exists, that superiority is sometimes only demonstrated on better ground when racing at championship speed.
That's not to disrespect any horse but if the form of the Lexus is to be taken literally then On His Own probably ran to a mark of approx 165 which would be the highest rating he's ever achieved a few days short of his 12th birthday and First Lieutenant would have achieved a rating around 20lb higher than his previous rating, it's far more likely that Don Poli ran well below his mark and the time (6m 36s) which was 54 secs slower than standard suggests this is the case....
 
Could be right Isty but Willie Mullins body language suggested that he wasn't happy with what he saw. Maybe Don Poli will turn out not to be as good as they thought, somewhere along the line these performances have to be taken at face value, and as far as the Gold cup is concerned Djakadam is on the verge of looking like a good thing to me
 
MrMcGoldrick said:
and as far as the Gold cup is concerned Djakadam is on the verge of looking like a good thing to me
Click to expand...

Cue Card !!!
Also, I wouldn't dismiss Don Cossack or Don Poli on what we've seen this week, Don Poli proved he jumps and stays at Chelt, Don Cossack has a few questions to ask after failed raids in the past but he went into this week as the highest rated chaser in training.
Plenty of reputations are put on the line over Xmas and many take a hit but come back in the Spring, those with form around Cheltenham such as O'Faorlains Boy and Holywell could also come into consideration in time as well as CC, DP and DC
 
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