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2016 Gold Cup

Gents, just remember that 2 weeks before Champagne Fever won the Supreme Ruby was saying the horse was a certainty for the potato race, plans can change very quickly in that yard....
 
Mrs Bradstock quoted as saying she wants Conygree to be thot of as a great a la ARKLE,yet she wont committ the horse to the King George until she finds out what Wullie Mullins plans are.I dont think Conygree will get to the front against Vautour and if the horse is of ARKLE likeness then why would she be concerned what Mullins is going to run.
 
Coneygree out for the season, reported by all news outlets. Dreadful news. Hopefully we see him back next season.
 
Ballybeen said:
Coneygree out for the season, reported by all news outlets. Dreadful news. Hopefully we see him back next season.
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Very disappointing and you have to feel for connections.
Clearly a difficult horse to keep fit, missed 2 years before last seasons Gold Cup success and a horse who approaching his 9th birthday has only made 11 visits to the racecourse, let's just hope he recovers fully and comes back as good as ever....
 
Bad luck for Conygree and supporters.makes it more remarkable what was achieved last season with this fragile horse.
 
a blow for Coneygree fans and a boon for followers of MMGs Vautour Champion Chase and Djakadam Gold Cup double.

Djakadam now best horse from previous renewal and still improving...
 
I dont think theres any chance Vautour going for champion chase,if anything Conygree being out enhances Vautours chances in gold cup as hes the confirmed pace setter against stayers Djackadam, Don Poli, and Don Cossack and as all the expert trainers and jockeys say the best horses can win at any distance.As for the champion chase those in the Mullins camp will tell you Un De Sceaux is faster than Vautour ovef 2m...Vautour to hose up in King George and become 2/1 fav for Gokd Cup.
 
I've heard it said before that there are those in the Mullins yard that say UDS is faster than Vautour, but how do they know? Also is it the same folk who thought there was never a chance of Nichols Canyon finishing ahead of Faugheen, or maybe David Mullins who has already stated that Djakadam can't win a Gold cup, there are always other opinions and usually just as valid until proved incorrect. One Man had absolutely no chance of winning a champion chase the season he won the King George, those opinions didn't stop him hosing up as one of the best winners of the race I've ever seen.
It may well be that Vautour will run in the Gold cup, and Ricci settle for watching the two shorter races without a good chance in either, but as the season runs on there will be lots of instances where we look at a particular turn of events and tell ourselves that we never expected that, I think there is still a possibility, even if he won the KG that Vautour will contest something shorter at the fez, if not he could set the race up for a true stayer. Personally I'm covered on Vautour for the three possible targets he has and will be more than happy to see him win any one of them, I just think it's prudent not to get too attached to an idea because nothing is cast in stone, and it still won't be if Vautour wins the KG.
 
MrMcGoldrick said:
It may well be that Vautour will run in the Gold cup, and Ricci settle for watching the two shorter races without a good chance in either
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He'll have Champagne Fever, who was the best staying novice in the yard 3 years ago and who should have won a Gold Cup by now, to fly the flag in the Queen Mother....
 
Istabraq said:
He'll have Champagne Fever, who was the best staying novice in the yard 3 years ago and who should have won a Gold Cup by now, to fly the flag in the Queen Mother....
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I do qualify the comment by saying "a good chance" Isty, for me CF appears to have been a failure at the top level since he went chasing. Maybe they've found a problem and sorted it out, but if they haven't I don't see him as a threat in the QM, and with 25/1 readily available neither do the bookies. I take all points about Vautour, but they are still to be proven correct, he is a fabulous racehorse and I look forward to seeing him at the fez, wherever he turns up, I just like to look for alternate routes to what everyone else thinks are likely, because those views tend to be misplaced on a great many occasions.
Warren Buffet is famous for his investing prowess and one of the mantras he lives by is "When everyone thinks one thing, bet the other way", so that's me, a betting contrarian, and it quite often pays dividends. This site is about the exchange of views to assist all, I simply don't accept that Vautour is a definite for the Gold cup, I think Djakadam has very strong claims and must be their number one hope at this stage
 
Completely agree Mr M, Mullins over the years has sprung many a surprise with his decisions so swimming against the tide I'm sure does pay dividends, and CF is probably a good example of that.
The horse was the leading 3m nov hurdler in winter 12/13 but was entered in the Supreme because of the Ricci policy of wanting a runner in every race and he already had Ballycasey, I believe CF was/is such a class horse that he won one of the best renewals of the Supreme in memory despite the inadequecy of the trip (and Ballycasey was ironically pulled from the A Bartlett due to lameness).
His chasing career I agree has disappointed but it started with him running in the Arkle when he should have been in staying chases but, as with the previous season, Ballycasey was booked for the RSA (4th) and Djakadam for the 2m 4f chase (fell).
His King George effort should be ignored as he pulled Rubys arms out for the first mile, perhaps because he was used to travelling quicker in his races over the shorter distance ?
You don't win the champion bumper at 5 (that requires severe stamina) and still run over the min distance 3+ years later, and that was a cracking renewal with the likes of The New One, Jezki and Many Clouds in behind.
So yes, he's certainly disappointed, but I do believe this is partly down to the fact he's been poorly placed, or if not poorly placed then placed to suit connections other horses....
 
You make good points there Isty, I suppose it suggests though that CF needs to go further than the QM to show his best, this would come back to Ricci not having a runner in that race, and, given the talk surrounding VVM, potentially three runners in the Gold cup.
I can't see Djakadam going anywhere but the Gold cup, VVM has to be proven at that level, and at the trip, so she has to be a major doubt, which gives weight to the argument that Vautour could be aimed here in case of a problem with Djakadam, and perhaps they are also mindfull of the experience regarding incorrect trip choice for CF and don't want to ruin Vautour in the same way. Plus there is the small matter of the King George coming up and if Vautour does destroy a class field in that then the Gold cup is an obvious choice, I have a concern over Vautour at this time of year though, I don't see him being fully wound up because win or lose Mullins won't want to leave his Cheltenham chance behind in the mud at Kempton, if it's too soft I can see him not running in the KG
 
There's been plenty of talk about how many runners Ricci will have in the Gold Cup, but as far as I know he has never run more than one of his in the same race preferring to keep his horses apart.
So last years runner up, Djakadam, presumably must be aimed at the same race ? It would make no sense to run him in any other race at the festival so unless they're intending a national bid with the horse he will line up on Gold Cup Friday, so what does he do with Vatour ?
Personally I think the Gold Cup is exactly the right race for Vatour but unless Ricci has a strategy review they won't both go for the race, and if there's anything other than a win in the King George for Vatour they then have a ready made excuse to avoid a Gold Cup clash with Djakadam, the Ryanair would seem the more sensible option but it wouldn't be a complete shock if if lines up for the Queen Mother should anything happen to Champagne Fever.
VVM can only really go for the Ryanair which would enhance your Vatour Queen Mother prediction, but I think that hinges on the health of CF.
VVM remember avoided Cheltenham and stayed behind to win a decent G2 at Limerick the day after the Gold Cup, could she avoid Prestbury Park again ?
All very difficult to predict at this stage and unfortunately I think connections strategies make this all the more difficult, if they simply ran their horses in the most appropriate race it would be obvious who goes where, but they (mostly) choose to avoid clashes.

I think they forecast Good to soft for Kempton with no significant rain due so conditions will be fine for Vatour.

Remember also Faugheen won 2m 6f and 3m (G3) races in the mud as a novice, so would the Champion hurdle seem the most approriate target ?
I'd suggest not but the horse has so much class and speed he was able to adapt to the championship race.
 
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I dont know what all the debate is about, Ricci has already said he wants to fire two arrows at the Gold Cup, unless Vautour totally bombs out in the KG then why shouldnt he do that.Vautour is a galloper with a high cruising speed, ideal attributes for a Gold Cup contender...seems Mr Mcg has all angles covered anyway by backing the horse in all possible races, I havent got deep enough pockets to do that,so on what ive seen of Vautour ive backed it to win KG and the Gold Cup, seems we'll all be happy if that happens
 
Apologies for debating !
I'm backing Cue Card and won't say another word until the Gold Cup 2017 thread is created lol
 
Are you sure Cue Card is going for Gold Cup istabraq,not the Ryanair...ha
 
Not sure why they would consider anything other than the Gold Cup, the throat surgery has clearly has a huge affect, he has 2 of the best 3 pieces of staying chase form this year and has a £1m bonus in his sights
 
Gold Cups were usually won by horses coming on and off the bridle until Coneygree came onto the scene. What are the odds for a GC winner to make-all two years in a row? Cos if Vautour wins thats the only way I can see him do it.
 
loveracing said:
Gold Cups were usually won by horses coming on and off the bridle until Coneygree came onto the scene. What are the odds for a GC winner to make-all two years in a row? Cos if Vautour wins thats the only way I can see him do it.
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I think Vautour takes up the running when on form because nothing can lay up with him, maybe they will feel it prudent to take a pull over the extra distance, if he runs there. I notice Don Cossack is the fav for the KG now, perhaps he will take over as fav for the Gold cup if he wins that, I must admit that he's another one I'd earmarked for the Ryanair
 
Trends change with the times, more often now than ever you see horses running at their respective distances from the front and taking the sting out of there rivals, Un De Sceaux and Faugheen over 2 miles, Vautour over 2 miles 4 furlongs last season, Coneygree over 3 miles plus last season, all running at a high cruising speed which punishes those rivals who try to keep up with them and the hold up horses find themselves too far back from the relentless gallop so the trail blazers end up hanging on till the line more often than not, are they great horses or great tactics, probably a combination of them both as you need the horse with an engine to maintain that level of form run after run
 
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