Robbie power said they will take him home and have the vets look at him but his initial thoughts was that he would still be back this season for either the irish gold cup or straight to chelt
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Cheltenham Gold Cup 2018
- Thread starter Kevloaf
- Start date
Robbie power said they will take him home and have the vets look at him but his initial thoughts was that he would still be back this season for either the irish gold cup or straight to chelt
RESULTS:*Clinical abnormalities were detected on post-race examination in 264 of the 541 poorly performing horses. Some horses displayed more than one abnormality. Twenty three individual abnormalities were reported. Seventy three horses had suffered interference-type injuries (cross firing, scalping, over reaching) during the race. Lameness was the second most commonly found abnormality (n = 60), with 73% of these lamenesses being in a forelimb. Twenty nine horses had sacroiliac pain (representing 10.6% of the abnormalities detected). Poor recovery, exercise induced pulmonary haemorrhage, respiratory infection or nasal discharge, gluteal pain, unilateral nasal haemorrhage and mouth injuries complete the list of the ten most common findings.
CONCLUSION:*Interference-type injuries, lameness and sacroiliac pain were the most common abnormalities found on post-race examination of horses which performed poorly.
Istabraq
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I'm taking Minella Rocco from todays race, will be better for Spring ground and much better for a stronger stamina test, not surprised to see a few cut him to 20/1 though anyone will a Hills acc can still grab 33s
Vautour
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Al Ferof
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I have no idea what the Mullins clan are doing with Yorkhill. One minute he's deemed good enough for a Champion Hurdle and the next thing they are trying him as a staying chaser. They let him run with the choke out again today too- was amazed he wasn't held up.Then again, first run of the season and very fresh, which is why I was shocked to see him in a Lexus.
He's all speed and class. He'd give the Champion Chase a great new angle but could end up seeing him coaxed home in a Ryanair.
He's all speed and class. He'd give the Champion Chase a great new angle but could end up seeing him coaxed home in a Ryanair.
Zipiter
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Couldnt agree more. Will have some of that 33-1
Seems Gold Cup is the plan too
O'Neill said: "He was very disappointing at Cheltenham but the ground probably didn't help and he seems in good form.
"Obviously, long term the Gold Cup is the plan but he will have to show more in Ireland. We are looking forward to a better run."
https://www.sportinglife.com/racing/news/harrington-happy-with-sizing/136427
Last edited:
The Beast
Banned
Its a conundrum to me also , thought he looked big in paddock and ran like he needed it badly. The plus points were he jumped very well , gained lengths at fences which pushed him from 9th/10th to leading after circuit , took the inside route and jumped straight (apart from one) ,raced brilliantly until turn it for home so interested on distance to line anyone.
I know bookies pushed him in betting like a non stayer and shortened on other races but think Mullins knows how fit he was more than them.Very interesting to what race and distance he runs next , that will tell us have we did our dough or not.
Personally I am unsure if he stayed or not and just beaten by race fitness and exuberant jumping , time will tell.
I know bookies pushed him in betting like a non stayer and shortened on other races but think Mullins knows how fit he was more than them.Very interesting to what race and distance he runs next , that will tell us have we did our dough or not.
Personally I am unsure if he stayed or not and just beaten by race fitness and exuberant jumping , time will tell.
He wont be running at 3 miles again,
Trainer*Willie Mullins*said, “It’s disappointing and I’m not sure he has a career as a three-mile chaser. It’s back to the drawing board with him.”
Trainer*Willie Mullins*said, “It’s disappointing and I’m not sure he has a career as a three-mile chaser. It’s back to the drawing board with him.”
Faugheen_Machine
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The Champion Chase should be the aim for Yorkhill. If Min, Altior and Yorkhill lined up it'd be some race.
jono
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So at the start of the year I had narrowed my fancies down for this race as:
Might Bite
Yorkhill
Our Duke
Obviously Our Duke 14/1 flopped first time out with excuses and it's unknown how he will fare following surgery on his comeback in February. Signs are encouraging he'll be back for that and Katie Harrington's recent interview on the FFP gave further encouragement on their record of back injuries. A waiting brief though for how he fares in the Irish Gold Cup.
Might Bite and Yorkhill have both have widely different outcomes in their races over Christmas!
Firstly the King George:
Might Bite 4/1F
3 out it looked like Might Bite might of won by a wide margin but Double Shuffle and Tea for Two certainly gave me a fright as they closed near the line. The race had shades of 2016 for me where Thistlecrack too kicked on and looked like he would win comfortably only to be closed at the line with Silviniaco Conti and Tea for Two a close 3 lengths behind. At the time I brushed aside the proximity of the other horses as Tom Scu just easing Thistlecrack down at the line but it's clear that probably wasn't the case in hindsight. So i am slightly wary of rating Might Bite's victory and chances with Double Shuffle and Tea for Two so close. I might end up thinking of the saying "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me" :very_drunk: but I'm happy to take Nico's view that the horse was idling and had plenty left at the end, his last jump suggested so. This time we of course have the RSA as evidence and there's no way he would have got back up against Whisper without having plenty of stamina in his makeup that day. He's a worthy favourite for the race particularly with what has gone on in Ireland today. My major worry with the horse though is to me it looks like connections are blunting his biggest assest - which is to go at a relentless gallop and get all horses out of their comfort zone. Something we saw at Kempton in 2016 and in the RSA but not since. Perhaps in ground that was against him on Boxing Day he couldn't do so? and obviously connections know more than me and perhaps that is a suicidal tactic in the Gold Cup (long term at least) but I feel like they are taking away perhaps too much of what sets him apart (a bit like Mullins did with UDS as a novice chaser). He idles and although I think he will dig in at the finish, I don't see him as an out and out stayer so if that distance isn't there after the last, he may find other horse(s) just find a little more.
There's little outside of the winner that I would take forward for the Gold Cup.
Bristol de Mai - No excuses for defeat. Had his go for the race in 2017. Cannot see any better to come. A horse to have onside for the Betfair Chase for the next few years but no more.
Thistlecrack - Actually showed more promise than I expected in 4th but lacks that spark pre injury even if we hyped him up too much. I'm sure he will line up in the Gold Cup in March as I can't see where else they would go (for me he wouldn't have enough speed for the Ryanair anymore). Could place at very best but a long shot in doing so. Personally i'd try and take a slow approach and look at something like the Betway Bowl at Aintree (or another grade 1 3mile chase) and have that as his 'Gold Cup'
Whisper - Will approve with Davy back onboard but he'll never beat Might Bite.
Fox Norton - Will revert back to the Ryanair trip
Double Shuffle & Tea For Two - despite coming second and third, hard to see them involved. 3 miles at Kempton is both of their ideals, not 3m2 at Cheltenham.
Onto the Lexus and my other hope, Yorkhill:
Yorkhill - 20/1
I was surprised he turned out here, particularly once Sizing John was a confirmed runner. But his options are so limited left handed that there was little else they could go for. He had so much against him:
- First time out this season
- First time in open company over fences
- No Ruby onboard
- First time trying 3 miles
- Up against the Gold Cup winner and one of the best 3 mile chases of the season
That I thought it was unlikely he would win, though that would not necessarily be the case in February (Irish Gold Cup) and March where most of the above would no longer apply. Having watched the race back 3 or 4 times now, twice just focusing on Yorkhill I think the Gold Cup dream is over and Mullins would share that view even if he has never nailed down the horse throughout his career:
As soon as Townend went to the front early on I knew he would never get home being so free and with so much against him today, on first view I gave him the benefit of doubt and even thought if this was still a target then 20/1 could be worth chancing but the more I watch it the worse the run looks. I could still honestly see how he could win a top 3 mile chase but he would need the perfect ride and perfect circumstances for it to happen and those conditions look slimmer and slimmer (buried in the back of the field with Ruby onboard at a strong gallop) and even if he got them, 3m2 round Cheltenham is probably always going to be out of reach for the horse.
One thing for sure I would certainly be sticking to chasing with the horse. Although slightly exuberant for staying chases there was nothing wrong with his jumping today If he goes Ryanair he beats all. The Champion Chase could be interesting up against a post wind-op Altior who may not have a prep run would be interesting but an onsong Altior would be almost impossible to beat imo. I'm done second guessing the horse though. I except the Gold Cup dream is over and will just wait and see what race my 6/1 any race bet on the horse will get me.
Onto the others in the race...
Sizing John - 8/1
Impossible to assess his performance until we realise the extent of the "abnormalities" are in the next few days. If nothing serious then being pushed out to 8/1 could look big if you are happy to draw a line on this run. For this horse though I have to keep coming back to the record of horses to follow up in the Gold Cup. Plus when you look back at his record over 3 miles
Irish Gold Cup - beating Empire of Dirt who has flopped since and not been out this season. More of That, Carlingford Lough and Road to Riches have also done nothing since. Don Poli (sadly) is not Gold Cup class.
Gold Cup - Minella Rocco has done ok since and Native River is still to come out since but it's arguable it was a poor renewal when you had the likes of More of That and Saphir Du Rheu in 5th and 6th only around 6 lengths back.
Punchestown Gold Cup - Djakadam and Coneygree gave him a real test (albeit he was slightly below par) and there was little between the Three. Doesn't look great since with Djakadam looking to have regressed and Coneygree PU twice.
John Durkan - Full credit to win stepping back down in trip and he looked good but a 7 length beating of Djakadam nothing to shout about anymore?
The following isn't mean to knock the horse for what he has done, he clearly is a very good chaser and he's young, you can only beat what is in front of you BUT you need to either be an exceptional horse to retain a Gold Cup or have a substandard year. The above makes me question whether he is just a good horse or and great/exceptional horse. I still personally don't think we have either, as good as Sizing John is.
I'd still be siding with one of the novice chasers coming through myself.
Of the others in the race:
Road to Respect - First time hood today. His second behind Outlander in the JNWine Chase may have been reversed on a left handed track and with the hood. Form of 1121 since the Cheltenham win. A festival winner, on the upgrade - is he still underated at 12/1?
The proximity of Outlander and Balko des Flos in the races he has contested makes me dubious about the strength of the form but both have won big races in the past even if they are just as likely to dissapoint.
Balko des Flos - Available at 66/1 for the Gold Cup. Galway Plate winner and running a good race in Yorkhill's JLT win before he came down but doesn't do it for me as per above with his consistency. See the same for Outlander.
Minella Rocco - he would be the horse I take out the race outside of the winner. But much like I have concerns with Sizing John following up, the same applies to question whether MR can go on better this year. 33/1 is half tempting as an each way proposition but I don't see him as the winner. Running in the green and gold hoops means it's tricky to really judge when the jockey onboard may be fully trying but I still have him as too inconsistent for me. I did post a while back on his record in larger fields where he gets cover off a strong pace though which means you can upgrade his career form with the Gold Cup in mind.
Valseur Lido - A good comeback run but he'll follow a similar path to many Gigginstown runners - ran too many times hoping to pick up a pot every 5/6th race but no chance in the Gold Cup.
Djakadam - After Yorkhill's performance he looks likely to be Mullins only runner in the race but no chance. Looks to have regressed and perhaps so many hard races early on in his career have taken it's toll?
The way the 2 races have worked out the following 3 horses have probably almost "enhanced" their claims be not running this week or at least not had their bubble burst:
Coney Island 12/1 - A lovely and very eye catching run on debut at Ascot recently. The form arguably adds up to none. AdP went far too hard early on and More of That looks gone at the game but both visually and sectionals suggest it was an ideal comeback. 12/1 best price for this race BUT still 14/1 Any Race William Hill even after today which I have just taken considering the Ryanair could still very much come into play (showed plenty of speed and turn of foot at Ascot)
Disko 20/1 - Much like Coney Island i'm not sure what his comeback run amounts too but it was a trip too short and he did what he had to do. A shame we didn't get to see him in either the King George or Lexus. Plenty going for him from his novice chase year (3rd in hot JLT, form tie in with Our Duke and Coney Island, Anibale Fly beating enhanced yesterday). Very interesting and we should no more next time out.
Native River 12/1 - Much like SJ and MR - hard for me to see why he would win after failing last year but Tizzard was way out of form at the festival last season so his 3rd in the race wasn't too bad and as long as they get him back in enough time, a season targeted around the GC and not handicaps could give him a little extra. Place claims for me but a short enough price.
All in all I had expected a slightly better performance on figures from Might Bite (sectionals suggest it wasn't stand out) but I'm willing to except that soft ground, a change of tactics (more restrained) and his idling at the end may have stopped that happening. Like I said a worthy fav but I do think there could be a few more twists and turns to come in the market between now and March.
Might Bite
Yorkhill
Our Duke
Obviously Our Duke 14/1 flopped first time out with excuses and it's unknown how he will fare following surgery on his comeback in February. Signs are encouraging he'll be back for that and Katie Harrington's recent interview on the FFP gave further encouragement on their record of back injuries. A waiting brief though for how he fares in the Irish Gold Cup.
Might Bite and Yorkhill have both have widely different outcomes in their races over Christmas!
Firstly the King George:
Might Bite 4/1F
3 out it looked like Might Bite might of won by a wide margin but Double Shuffle and Tea for Two certainly gave me a fright as they closed near the line. The race had shades of 2016 for me where Thistlecrack too kicked on and looked like he would win comfortably only to be closed at the line with Silviniaco Conti and Tea for Two a close 3 lengths behind. At the time I brushed aside the proximity of the other horses as Tom Scu just easing Thistlecrack down at the line but it's clear that probably wasn't the case in hindsight. So i am slightly wary of rating Might Bite's victory and chances with Double Shuffle and Tea for Two so close. I might end up thinking of the saying "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me" :very_drunk: but I'm happy to take Nico's view that the horse was idling and had plenty left at the end, his last jump suggested so. This time we of course have the RSA as evidence and there's no way he would have got back up against Whisper without having plenty of stamina in his makeup that day. He's a worthy favourite for the race particularly with what has gone on in Ireland today. My major worry with the horse though is to me it looks like connections are blunting his biggest assest - which is to go at a relentless gallop and get all horses out of their comfort zone. Something we saw at Kempton in 2016 and in the RSA but not since. Perhaps in ground that was against him on Boxing Day he couldn't do so? and obviously connections know more than me and perhaps that is a suicidal tactic in the Gold Cup (long term at least) but I feel like they are taking away perhaps too much of what sets him apart (a bit like Mullins did with UDS as a novice chaser). He idles and although I think he will dig in at the finish, I don't see him as an out and out stayer so if that distance isn't there after the last, he may find other horse(s) just find a little more.
There's little outside of the winner that I would take forward for the Gold Cup.
Bristol de Mai - No excuses for defeat. Had his go for the race in 2017. Cannot see any better to come. A horse to have onside for the Betfair Chase for the next few years but no more.
Thistlecrack - Actually showed more promise than I expected in 4th but lacks that spark pre injury even if we hyped him up too much. I'm sure he will line up in the Gold Cup in March as I can't see where else they would go (for me he wouldn't have enough speed for the Ryanair anymore). Could place at very best but a long shot in doing so. Personally i'd try and take a slow approach and look at something like the Betway Bowl at Aintree (or another grade 1 3mile chase) and have that as his 'Gold Cup'
Whisper - Will approve with Davy back onboard but he'll never beat Might Bite.
Fox Norton - Will revert back to the Ryanair trip
Double Shuffle & Tea For Two - despite coming second and third, hard to see them involved. 3 miles at Kempton is both of their ideals, not 3m2 at Cheltenham.
Onto the Lexus and my other hope, Yorkhill:
Yorkhill - 20/1
I was surprised he turned out here, particularly once Sizing John was a confirmed runner. But his options are so limited left handed that there was little else they could go for. He had so much against him:
- First time out this season
- First time in open company over fences
- No Ruby onboard
- First time trying 3 miles
- Up against the Gold Cup winner and one of the best 3 mile chases of the season
That I thought it was unlikely he would win, though that would not necessarily be the case in February (Irish Gold Cup) and March where most of the above would no longer apply. Having watched the race back 3 or 4 times now, twice just focusing on Yorkhill I think the Gold Cup dream is over and Mullins would share that view even if he has never nailed down the horse throughout his career:
As soon as Townend went to the front early on I knew he would never get home being so free and with so much against him today, on first view I gave him the benefit of doubt and even thought if this was still a target then 20/1 could be worth chancing but the more I watch it the worse the run looks. I could still honestly see how he could win a top 3 mile chase but he would need the perfect ride and perfect circumstances for it to happen and those conditions look slimmer and slimmer (buried in the back of the field with Ruby onboard at a strong gallop) and even if he got them, 3m2 round Cheltenham is probably always going to be out of reach for the horse.
One thing for sure I would certainly be sticking to chasing with the horse. Although slightly exuberant for staying chases there was nothing wrong with his jumping today If he goes Ryanair he beats all. The Champion Chase could be interesting up against a post wind-op Altior who may not have a prep run would be interesting but an onsong Altior would be almost impossible to beat imo. I'm done second guessing the horse though. I except the Gold Cup dream is over and will just wait and see what race my 6/1 any race bet on the horse will get me.
Onto the others in the race...
Sizing John - 8/1
Impossible to assess his performance until we realise the extent of the "abnormalities" are in the next few days. If nothing serious then being pushed out to 8/1 could look big if you are happy to draw a line on this run. For this horse though I have to keep coming back to the record of horses to follow up in the Gold Cup. Plus when you look back at his record over 3 miles
Irish Gold Cup - beating Empire of Dirt who has flopped since and not been out this season. More of That, Carlingford Lough and Road to Riches have also done nothing since. Don Poli (sadly) is not Gold Cup class.
Gold Cup - Minella Rocco has done ok since and Native River is still to come out since but it's arguable it was a poor renewal when you had the likes of More of That and Saphir Du Rheu in 5th and 6th only around 6 lengths back.
Punchestown Gold Cup - Djakadam and Coneygree gave him a real test (albeit he was slightly below par) and there was little between the Three. Doesn't look great since with Djakadam looking to have regressed and Coneygree PU twice.
John Durkan - Full credit to win stepping back down in trip and he looked good but a 7 length beating of Djakadam nothing to shout about anymore?
The following isn't mean to knock the horse for what he has done, he clearly is a very good chaser and he's young, you can only beat what is in front of you BUT you need to either be an exceptional horse to retain a Gold Cup or have a substandard year. The above makes me question whether he is just a good horse or and great/exceptional horse. I still personally don't think we have either, as good as Sizing John is.
I'd still be siding with one of the novice chasers coming through myself.
Of the others in the race:
Road to Respect - First time hood today. His second behind Outlander in the JNWine Chase may have been reversed on a left handed track and with the hood. Form of 1121 since the Cheltenham win. A festival winner, on the upgrade - is he still underated at 12/1?
The proximity of Outlander and Balko des Flos in the races he has contested makes me dubious about the strength of the form but both have won big races in the past even if they are just as likely to dissapoint.
Balko des Flos - Available at 66/1 for the Gold Cup. Galway Plate winner and running a good race in Yorkhill's JLT win before he came down but doesn't do it for me as per above with his consistency. See the same for Outlander.
Minella Rocco - he would be the horse I take out the race outside of the winner. But much like I have concerns with Sizing John following up, the same applies to question whether MR can go on better this year. 33/1 is half tempting as an each way proposition but I don't see him as the winner. Running in the green and gold hoops means it's tricky to really judge when the jockey onboard may be fully trying but I still have him as too inconsistent for me. I did post a while back on his record in larger fields where he gets cover off a strong pace though which means you can upgrade his career form with the Gold Cup in mind.
Valseur Lido - A good comeback run but he'll follow a similar path to many Gigginstown runners - ran too many times hoping to pick up a pot every 5/6th race but no chance in the Gold Cup.
Djakadam - After Yorkhill's performance he looks likely to be Mullins only runner in the race but no chance. Looks to have regressed and perhaps so many hard races early on in his career have taken it's toll?
The way the 2 races have worked out the following 3 horses have probably almost "enhanced" their claims be not running this week or at least not had their bubble burst:
Coney Island 12/1 - A lovely and very eye catching run on debut at Ascot recently. The form arguably adds up to none. AdP went far too hard early on and More of That looks gone at the game but both visually and sectionals suggest it was an ideal comeback. 12/1 best price for this race BUT still 14/1 Any Race William Hill even after today which I have just taken considering the Ryanair could still very much come into play (showed plenty of speed and turn of foot at Ascot)
Disko 20/1 - Much like Coney Island i'm not sure what his comeback run amounts too but it was a trip too short and he did what he had to do. A shame we didn't get to see him in either the King George or Lexus. Plenty going for him from his novice chase year (3rd in hot JLT, form tie in with Our Duke and Coney Island, Anibale Fly beating enhanced yesterday). Very interesting and we should no more next time out.
Native River 12/1 - Much like SJ and MR - hard for me to see why he would win after failing last year but Tizzard was way out of form at the festival last season so his 3rd in the race wasn't too bad and as long as they get him back in enough time, a season targeted around the GC and not handicaps could give him a little extra. Place claims for me but a short enough price.
All in all I had expected a slightly better performance on figures from Might Bite (sectionals suggest it wasn't stand out) but I'm willing to except that soft ground, a change of tactics (more restrained) and his idling at the end may have stopped that happening. Like I said a worthy fav but I do think there could be a few more twists and turns to come in the market between now and March.
Istabraq
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Yep, but the agreement between Chelt and Aintree giving minimum 22 days between the races means you can target both.
People forget he wasn't far off lifting the pot last year....
darlojim
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I got the impression after watching Nico talk about MB post race that he felt there was still plenty to come from him but I also think having MB set a blazing gallop would get nearly all of the field in trouble 2 mile in! Its a shame you cant have a pacemaker come in at the 2m 5 point to keep him on his game :triumphant:
Harrington said: "The official report said he was a clinical abnormality after the post-race examination. He is sound now and his heart was OK.
"Basically he got slight hyperthermia and he got too hot. As soon as he cooled down, he was grand.
"I won't know anything else until I run some blood tests on him when I get back."
Istabraq
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The Beast
Banned
Just when we thought we shortlisted about 6 possible winners for Gold Cup , race is now up for grabs and I expect to see biggest field for years line up comes March.
BigChaang
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If anyone's interested , ( that'll be just me then :highly_amused
, I emailed willie mullins yard ,. and they said Bellshill is in good form
and should be out later in the season. (on O.C for gold cup. )
, I emailed willie mullins yard ,. and they said Bellshill is in good form and should be out later in the season. (on O.C for gold cup. )
If anyone's interested , ( that'll be just me then :highly_amused
and should be out later in the season. (on O.C for gold cup. )
I'll take the 700/1+ on the exchanges then :highly_amused:
If anyone's interested , ( that'll be just me then :highly_amused
and should be out later in the season. (on O.C for gold cup. )
Stayers poss more likely? Some task after his jumping last year to go straight into grade 1 open company over fences
Yeah probably - but Wylie has had some 'rags' in the Gold Cup before, and 3rd in an RSA. Although 700/1 is probably about the right price haha
Istabraq
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If anyone's interested , ( that'll be just me then :highly_amused
and should be out later in the season. (on O.C for gold cup. )
You e-mailed the yard and they gave you an update ?
They struggle to give the racing press and wider racing community genuine updates so you've done seriously well there....