September ‘24 Yankee

[ComplyOrDie]

Nallen said of Minella Premier.....

“I had plenty of offers before I came here with him. You’d be shocked by how much money I was prepared to take him home for. It’s a great result, though, and Nicky Henderson will improve him stones. He’ll be a proper two and half-mile horse at Cheltenham next March.”

I've seen this quote about 3 or 4 times in the past few days now, hopefully this will be the last time :highly_amused:

Also, if I worked off every p2p trainers quotes I'd probably be skint

 

[JackieMoon33]

If I had solely crossed him with an Old Vic mare then probably not, but taking his dam out of the equation then absolutely would have had him as anything, although was always convinced he was Ballymore bound and only backed him for the Supreme out of FOMO.

Flemensfirth has a very mixed bag, not to mention actually produces higher level of animal in comparison to Shantou. It's not as if Shantou has just come on to the scene, in fact, quite the opposite now, unfortunately. I honestly thought Stay Away Fay may be the first 170 horse for Shantou, but even he has now hit a wall seemingly.

If Minella Premier went to the Bartlett I'd be interested.

You can't ignore the dam line for one and not the other :biggrin-new:
If we'd never seen Ballyburn run then you have to agree that you'd be thinking stayer - he even has two full brothers who were staying chasers.
But because he'd run like the wind in that bumper, the eyes take over and be used for judgement instead and we can form a different opinion. I've been caught out more than most when it comes to this sort of thing over the years, which is why I'm trying to favour the eyes these days.

 

[ComplyOrDie]

You can't ignore the dam line for one and not the other :biggrin-new:

I'm not, if we are only taking into account the sires then Minella Premier ends up in the Bartlett or a handicap

That's why I mentioned both options in my post though.

If we'd never seen Ballyburn run then you have to agree that you'd be thinking stayer - he even has two full brothers who were staying chasers.
But because he'd run like the wind in that bumper, the eyes take over and be used for judgement instead and we can form a different opinion. I've been caught out more than most when it comes to this sort of thing over the years, which is why I'm trying to favour the eyes these days.

Ballyburn I had down as a staying type, yeah, hence the Ballymore over the Supreme bets. I even have a bet down on him for the BANC this coming season, such is the conundrum he provides with his breeding. I still don't think he'll end up in the Arkle or Champion Hurdle.

We've not seen Minella Premier though. His p2p is lacking substance, so I can't form an opinion on that either. I'm basing it on his breeding for now. Shantou out of a Black Sam Bellamy mare.

 

[Spectre]

You could pick Ballyburn out as speed just by looking at his point. Well worth a watch if you get a chance. Also with a mind to his novice chasing campaign. Using his point as a reference, you certainly wouldn't be concerned about him running in an Arkle this season.

With regards Minella Premier he ran and won like a galloper. Essentially they look like two very different types.

I always fall back on breeding, but it can also make a fool out of us at times. Ballyburn might just end up being that rare 'Kauto' type. Fast enough to win Tingle Creaks (and probably an Arkle), a blend of stamina and speed to win King George's at will. But tough as old boots and good enough to win Gold Cup's. I'm not suggesting Ballburn will go on and achieve so much, but I do think he has a very rare blend of speed and stamina that will allow Willie to do pretty much what he wants with him. To get the best out of him though over the long term it'll be better to bring his stamina out over time and with age.

Minella Premier is in the 'could be anything' category. And that means he could also be nothing. I see him as the type that will want a trip sooner rather than later though. He might get away with a win or two in ordinary 2 mile novice hurdles, but when he's in top company it may be that he needs to go up. And let's not forget he might have a bumper season this season given he's a 4yo. In fact you'd think it's likely. And for that reason alone I couldn't have him in any kind of bet right now, not least a yankee. Word will start to come out about him in October, and maybe then when we know which route he's going and how he's been working it will guide whether he's any type of bet.

 

[OverTheLast]

You could pick Ballyburn out as speed just by looking at his point. Well worth a watch if you get a chance. Also with a mind to his novice chasing campaign. Using his point as a reference, you certainly wouldn't be concerned about him running in an Arkle this season.

With regards Minella Premier he ran and won like a galloper. Essentially they look like two very different types.

I always fall back on breeding, but it can also make a fool out of us at times. Ballyburn might just end up being that rare 'Kauto' type. Fast enough to win Tingle Creaks (and probably an Arkle), a blend of stamina and speed to win King George's at will. But tough as old boots and good enough to win Gold Cup's. I'm not suggesting Ballburn will go on and achieve so much, but I do think he has a very rare blend of speed and stamina that will allow Willie to do pretty much what he wants with him. To get the best out of him though over the long term it'll be better to bring his stamina out over time and with age.

Minella Premier is in the 'could be anything' category. And that means he could also be nothing. I see him as the type that will want a trip sooner rather than later though. He might get away with a win or two in ordinary 2 mile novice hurdles, but when he's in top company it may be that he needs to go up. And let's not forget he might have a bumper season this season given he's a 4yo. In fact you'd think it's likely. And for that reason alone I couldn't have him in any kind of bet right now, not least a yankee. Word will start to come out about him in October, and maybe then when we know which route he's going and how he's been working it will guide whether he's any type of bet.

Olly Harris (owner) been quite vocal on twitter (probably when drunk :chuncky about Minella Premier for the Supreme this year... although like you say wouldn't be suprised to see him have a bumper season

 

[Spectre]

I know. He was the same with Wilmount last season. Another that'll need a trip.

 

[darlojim]

Olly Harris (owner) been quite vocal on twitter (probably when drunk :chuncky about Minella Premier for the Supreme this year... although like you say wouldn't be suprised to see him have a bumper season

Nice bloke him

 

[Lobos]

Nice bloke him

:excitement::excitement::excitement:

Glad he's bought another one so you can keep your good luck messages going to Oliver!

 

[ComplyOrDie]

:excitement::excitement::excitement:

Glad he's bought another one so you can keep your good luck messages going to Oliver!

No chance of that, Olly blocked him, I think :highly_amused:

Good post on Minella Premier that though Spectre and despite the conversations earlier I hadn't even thought that he could go down the bumper route first.

Just another reason to not bother with him.

 

[darlojim]

:excitement::excitement::excitement:

Glad he's bought another one so you can keep your good luck messages going to Oliver!

Yeah we ain't friends unfortunately

I somehow got into the head of a multi million pound businessman - rent free.

Was tweeting about me days later after I'd say something to him nthego::bee:

 

[JackieMoon33]

You could pick Ballyburn out as speed just by looking at his point. Well worth a watch if you get a chance. Also with a mind to his novice chasing campaign. Using his point as a reference, you certainly wouldn't be concerned about him running in an Arkle this season.

With regards Minella Premier he ran and won like a galloper. Essentially they look like two very different types.

I always fall back on breeding, but it can also make a fool out of us at times. Ballyburn might just end up being that rare 'Kauto' type. Fast enough to win Tingle Creaks (and probably an Arkle), a blend of stamina and speed to win King George's at will. But tough as old boots and good enough to win Gold Cup's. I'm not suggesting Ballburn will go on and achieve so much, but I do think he has a very rare blend of speed and stamina that will allow Willie to do pretty much what he wants with him. To get the best out of him though over the long term it'll be better to bring his stamina out over time and with age.

Minella Premier is in the 'could be anything' category. And that means he could also be nothing. I see him as the type that will want a trip sooner rather than later though. He might get away with a win or two in ordinary 2 mile novice hurdles, but when he's in top company it may be that he needs to go up. And let's not forget he might have a bumper season this season given he's a 4yo. In fact you'd think it's likely. And for that reason alone I couldn't have him in any kind of bet right now, not least a yankee. Word will start to come out about him in October, and maybe then when we know which route he's going and how he's been working it will guide whether he's any type of bet.

Agree he could take in a quiet bumper season as he’s only 4yo.

Also agree Ballyburn is one of those rare exceptions who will be a Grade 1 winner over 2m and 3m in his career.

I’d have to disagree that he looked a galloper in his point though and all post race comments mention his turn of foot too. I’ve watched the race many times before completing my PTP list, and he certainly showed gears to kick away from the field very quickly from two out. Add in how green he was too and he’d have likely been quicker. Yes the opposition could be dreadful, but so was Ballyburns which is why I don’t take PTP form too literally.

As mentioned, he’s a head scratcher for me at the moment, even if he does go hurdling, as I’m conflicted between the visuals and the page.

 

[The Giant Bolster]

Agree he could take in a quiet bumper season as he’s only 4yo.

Also agree Ballyburn is one of those rare exceptions who will be a Grade 1 winner over 2m and 3m in his career.

I’d have to disagree that he looked a galloper in his point though and all post race comments mention his turn of foot too. I’ve watched the race many times before completing my PTP list, and he certainly showed gears to kick away from the field very quickly from two out. Add in how green he was too and he’d have likely been quicker. Yes the opposition could be dreadful, but so was Ballyburns which is why I don’t take PTP form too literally.

As mentioned, he’s a head scratcher for me at the moment, even if he does go hurdling, as I’m conflicted between the visuals and the page.

In classic P2P video style you miss a key bit behind some trees but fwiw I thought he should a turn of pace too.

Bumpers is possible but nearly half of Henderson's Supreme runners in the last ten years have been 5 at the Festival. Though only one won and two placed.

 

[Spectre]

My view of watching Minella Premier was that the others simply fell away while he sustained his gallop to the line. Essentially it was a poor field and nothing else really saw it out. The 82 rating the 2nd was given would beat out that the P2P handicapper took a similar view. The problem with P2P footage for us is we don't have furlong markers to measure/time what's happening. It's a tricky one because it's easy to take either view, and I don;t think any of us could be completely confident who's right and who's wrong with the view we took.

Ballyburn however quite clearly sprinted away from them after some very slick jumps. It's the pace in and out of his fences that makes it clearer. Plus the Ballyburn from was tested making it easier to read. We've also subsequently had the benefit of seeing his pace being evident under rules.

 

[JackieMoon33]

My view of watching Minella Premier was that the others simply fell away while he sustained his gallop to the line. Essentially it was a poor field and nothing else really saw it out. The 82 rating the 2nd was given would beat out that the P2P handicapper took a similar view. The problem with P2P footage for us is we don't have furlong markers to measure/time what's happening. It's a tricky one because it's easy to take either view, and I don;t think any of us could be completely confident who's right and who's wrong with the view we took.

Ballyburn however quite clearly sprinted away from them after some very slick jumps. It's the pace in and out of his fences that makes it clearer. Plus the Ballyburn from was tested making it easier to read. We've also subsequently had the benefit of seeing his pace being evident under rules.

The lack of markers and timings does make it hard indeed so it’s really a visual game. That’s why I always go through all the quotes and race reports to get a better viewpoint from those on track.

“The newcomer Minella Premier created a very favourable impression by leading from before two out and then showing a potent turn of foot to go effortlesly clear before the last under Johnny Barry.”

“Minella Premier created a very favourable impression on debut here as having always taken the eye in running, he eased through to pick up the running before the second-last. That hardly prepared one for what was about to come, however as he unleashed a powerful turn of foot after this penultimate obstacle, despite running a tad green before the last, which carried him some 12 lengths clear of runner-up Malinificient.”

We can’t compare the quality of fields yet but Ballyburn’s was far from vintage and only has a couple of 110 rated horses. And as Ballyburn only led in the final ~200 yards due to being hampered two out, we’ve no idea how far he could have won by either. He had to reel in the leaders on the flat, as opposed to bursting clear like Minella Premier did from two out. It’s also impossible to say if horses were sprinted away from or didn’t stay either.

We’ll find out in a few months if Minella Premier goes hurdling. He could be complete muck regardless of any speed he may or may not have shown!

 

[HesTheOne]

Langer Dan - Stayers
Spectre may guide us more but I think he’s a good one to have onside if you take Teahupoo out of the picture (2 yankees already) His results at Chelt speaks for itself and Harry mentioned this as a target in JTF.

Who knows how his season will go now the charade is up :beguiled: 25/33s about for a 160 hurdler, with some progression left in the yank you’d feel

 

[Yosser]

You could pick Ballyburn out as speed just by looking at his point. Well worth a watch if you get a chance. Also with a mind to his novice chasing campaign. Using his point as a reference, you certainly wouldn't be concerned about him running in an Arkle this season.

With regards Minella Premier he ran and won like a galloper. Essentially they look like two very different types.

I always fall back on breeding, but it can also make a fool out of us at times. Ballyburn might just end up being that rare 'Kauto' type. Fast enough to win Tingle Creaks (and probably an Arkle), a blend of stamina and speed to win King George's at will. But tough as old boots and good enough to win Gold Cup's. I'm not suggesting Ballburn will go on and achieve so much, but I do think he has a very rare blend of speed and stamina that will allow Willie to do pretty much what he wants with him. To get the best out of him though over the long term it'll be better to bring his stamina out over time and with age.

Minella Premier is in the 'could be anything' category. And that means he could also be nothing. I see him as the type that will want a trip sooner rather than later though. He might get away with a win or two in ordinary 2 mile novice hurdles, but when he's in top company it may be that he needs to go up. And let's not forget he might have a bumper season this season given he's a 4yo. In fact you'd think it's likely. And for that reason alone I couldn't have him in any kind of bet right now, not least a yankee. Word will start to come out about him in October, and maybe then when we know which route he's going and how he's been working it will guide whether he's any type of bet.

Nicky on last season stable tour "Bumpers are great in the spring just for an education run, i am not in favour of them at this time of year. Point to pointers are better just to get on with their job in order to take them somewhere later on in the season. I would just rather get on and get over hurdles with them"

 

[Saxon Warrior]

Nicky on last season stable tour "Bumpers are great in the spring just for an education run,

i am not in favour of them at this time of year.

Point to pointers are better just to get on with their job in order to take them somewhere later on in the season. I would just rather get on and get over hurdles with them"

Here Here

Time the folk, with the ability to make those changes, got that message

Bumpers should be open to 5yo max.

Can't imagine France having 6yo Bumper races like our Champion Bumper :cower:

Packed with horses that ran in 3M P2P Chases aged 4yo :cower::cower:

Ireland still have 7yos running in Bumpers.
Seems to be no earlier ceiling on Bumper runs/age there.

NH Worlds gone mad.

 

[JackieMoon33]

Here Here

Time the folk, with the ability to make those changes, got that message

Bumpers should be open to 5yo max.

Can't imagine France having 6yo Bumper races like our Champion Bumper :cower:

Packed with horses that ran in 3M P2P Chases aged 4yo :cower::cower:

Ireland still have 7yos running in Bumpers.
Seems to be no earlier ceiling on Bumper runs/age there.

NH Worlds gone mad.

I'd make it 5yo max for horses that haven't run in a point and 4yo max for those that have run in a point.

 

[Saxon Warrior]

I'd make it 5yo max for horses that haven't run in a point and 4yo max for those that have run in a point.

I like that JackieMoon33

Running without obstacles is not supposed to be a jumping career.

Particularly after you've had your prep in P2Ps, jumping obstacles already :encouragement:

Limit the runs too, like GB do, to 3 Bumpers max (unless the 4th is the Cheltenham/Aintree Bumper).

Watching a 7yo like Redemption Day racking up more Bumper runs vs younger horses seemed a bit bizarre.

Like an 18 year old, returning back to education after an illness but starting back where he left off, back in primary school. :welcoming:

 

[Spectre]

Langer Dan - Stayers
Spectre may guide us more but I think he’s a good one to have onside if you take Teahupoo out of the picture (2 yankees already) His results at Chelt speaks for itself and Harry mentioned this as a target in JTF.

Who knows how his season will go now the charade is up :beguiled: 25/33s about for a 160 hurdler, with some progression left in the yank you’d feel

They certainly hope he'll prove good enough for the Stayers. I think a few might be surprised though as I still wouldn't be expecting too much from him until the spring. I know he had a small knock/setback early doors last season, and he struggled in the winter ground. Unless it's unseasonally dry I suspect nobody will be fancying him until the spring anyway, so no rush really to get him onside.