Cross Country 2020

[Quevega]

We said same about tiger roll this year
And cause of causes the year before last

[Kevloaf]

Tiger roll didn’t run to his rating - anywhere near
Judging easysland is therefore tricky.
Be a little hasty to rate easysland higher than low to mid 150s imo
Although he looked very nice

Easy to forget tiger was far from the favourite when he faced cause of causes and neither was causes on his first attempt

Didn't he?
How far ahead of the rest of the field was Tiger Roll?

Whether he did run to his rating or not, I don't think he'll be running to it in next years edition either.



How would you rate Easysland without Tiger Roll in that race?




The profile Cause of Causes and Tiger Roll had were different to Ravenhill, Champagne Classic etc... I don't think he has anything else in the yard they think will be as good as Tiger Roll, let alone better.

Assuming Elliott just has a conveyer belt of horses is a bit neive isn't it? He just had two in a row is all.... both multiple festival winners?

We said same about tiger roll this year
And cause of causes the year before last

We did, so I see your point... but it's very easy to say "you never know what could happen" and essentially we've just got absolutely nothing to base it on until that first Cheltenham meeting...

I guess we'll have to put it on ice until then... what you're saying is right, which is why he's not a bet at 2/1.
As things stand now though, he's the most likely winner at next years festival for me.

Obviously things can change

[Quevega]

Didn't he?
How far ahead of the rest of the field was Tiger Roll?

Whether he did run to his rating or not, I don't think he'll be running to it in next years edition either.



How would you rate Easysland without Tiger Roll in that race?




The profile Cause of Causes and Tiger Roll had were different to Ravenhill, Champagne Classic etc... I don't think he has anything else in the yard they think will be as good as Tiger Roll, let alone better.

Assuming Elliott just has a conveyer belt of horses is a bit neive isn't it? He just had two in a row is all.... both multiple festival winners?




We did, so I see your point... but it's very easy to say "you never know what could happen" and essentially we've just got absolutely nothing to base it on until that first Cheltenham meeting...

I guess we'll have to put it on ice until then... what you're saying is right, which is why he's not a bet at 2/1.
As things stand now though, he's the most likely winner at next years festival for me.

Obviously things can change

Very little was known about easysland this time last year.
Now it can’t lose ?
It’s tough to go back to back
Many would have built there books around tiger roll and cause of causes before that
If tiger was that good - he would have been favourite vs causes The first time
You’re not born a legend - it takes time and achievements

[Quevega]

He didn’t run to 170+
Or is easysland 180+

No & No

The rest were mid 150 rated at best with doubts over them or no experience of the discipline

[Kevloaf]

He didn’t run to 170+
Or is easysland 180+

No & No

The rest were mid 150 rated at best with doubts over them or no experience of the discipline

Using any rating for the cross county discipline is dangerous. To say he hasn't run 'anywhere near' is compared to what? His Grand National win, or his Cross Country win?


Whatever rating you want to give Easysland for this win... Tiger Roll beat Josies Orders and Urgent De Gregaine 22L the year he won it...
Easysland beat Tiger Roll 17L and Urgent De Gregaine 39L last year. It's impressive no matter what figure you pop on the Tiger (who funnly enough was 22L ahead of Urgent De Gregaine again)....


Hardly bonkers for me to assume Tiger Roll ran close to the same race.



I don't really care what rating Tiger Roll is before or after his Nationals, in this discipline, I don't think he's done any more than Easysland has?

[Kevloaf]

Very little was known about easysland this time last year.
Now it can’t lose ?
It’s tough to go back to back
Many would have built there books around tiger roll and cause of causes before that
If tiger was that good - he would have been favourite vs causes The first time
You’re not born a legend - it takes time and achievements

Don't put words in my mouth either . I said he's the most likely winner, not he cannot lose.


Cause of Causes was 12/1, 9/1 and 8/1 when people would have been "building their books" around him. (Which nobody would have done) but that was a great bet regardless of Tiger Roll coming along.

I can't remember what price Tiger Roll was, but it wasn't 2/1.




I'll just repeat myself as you seem to have struggled to read it and invented your own version of what I said..... he's the most likely winner, but not a bet now at 2/1

[Saxon Warrior]

My earlier Easysland quote is of course date timed today, and there isn't anything I would want to back at level weights to beat him next season at this moment in time, regardless of price and non-cross-country form.

Only 10 months to find something to beat him at attractive odds, or for Easys to run in the Gold Cup

[Quevega]

Don't put words in my mouth either . I said he's the most likely winner, not he cannot lose.


Cause of Causes was 12/1, 9/1 and 8/1 when people would have been "building their books" around him. (Which nobody would have done) but that was a great bet regardless of Tiger Roll coming along.

I can't remember what price Tiger Roll was, but it wasn't 2/1.




I'll just repeat myself as you seem to have struggled to read it and invented your own version of what I said..... he's the most likely winner, but not a bet now at 2/1

Causes was that big a price in the run up to his follow up attempt ?
I’ll guess you’ve already fact checked it.

[Quevega]

Close to a banker as I imagine

Was what you said

[Kevloaf]

Close to a banker as I imagine

Was what you said

Well yeah, there aren't any bankers ever, let alone 10 months out ... but if every horse was evens now and we had to pick the most winners in some sort of mythical head to head ... I'd pick Easysland before owt else

[Quevega]

Well yeah, there aren't any bankers ever, let alone 10 months out ... but if every horse was evens now and we had to pick the most winners in some sort of mythical head to head ... I'd pick Easysland before owt else

so would I.
Although this race has shown in recent years that something can pop up from November onwards.
My point was backing up your value worries on the horse with another reason why, in addition to the price and long term risks.
Elliott will definitely want to win this race again.
And France could find something else too.

Those are the specific risks for backers of the Fav that are already on.

[Kevloaf]

so would I.
Although this race has shown in recent years that something can pop up from November onwards.
My point was backing up your value worries on the horse with another reason why, in addition to the price and long term risks.
Elliott will definitely want to win this race again.
And France could find something else too.

Those are the specific risks for backers of the Fav that are already on.

It's just harder to spot a complete unknown from France or the Elliott yard than spot dangers in any other division.

We already know who's stepping up into the Gold Cup and Champion Chase classes, we know bumper horses are going novice hurdling etc.

This race the pool of potential dangers is very limited. There will be a few like Yanworth and Might Bite who used to be good and now they're 'shite' (or 'alright' as us Tranmere fans adopted the song when we signed Michael Ricketts) and Gordon Elliott, who of course will want to win the race... but I'd still argue it'll be hard for him to reproduce what he's done, as Cause of Causes and Tiger Roll had both got more than one festival race in the bag before attempting this discipline.


We'll know more in November, and Easysland price relative to what Cause of Causes and Tiger Roll. I wouldn't even bother pretending I know enough about whose coming through in France either, but I'll trust the forum experts to guide me as usual there.

[Hurricane fly]

For me Tiger didn’t run as good a race as he did the two years previous.

I watched from the centre of the course but I’ve never seen him look that tired coming up the hill.

While both are officially down as soft, I think this year was slightly worse ground than last and the time would reflect that being 40 seconds slower.(His first win was officially soft and again faster than this years win) Tiger has won a National on heavy so given he hasn’t been beaten for ground and he hasn’t been burned off by a blazing winner it’s fair to say he wasn’t up to the previous years standard.


To my memory Tiger was 5/1 at this point after his first win.

[Kevloaf]

He just stopped trying when beaten, well clear of the same horses he beat by the same distance the year before.

Tiger tinted glasses I reckon

To be fair, it's very easy to see the case that Tiger wasn't in the same form this season, his Boyne Hurdle run is a pretty clear indicator year on year, so fair enough.



Even so, I think to anticipate Tiger Roll reproducing form from 2 years ago is pie in the sky. The level he ran to this time was still very good, and he';d have been visually emphatic AGAIN had Easysland not been superior.

Easysland has put in a performance just as good this year as Tiger did the year before in my opinion.

[Istabraq]

I last watched the race about a month ago but from memory Tiger travelled into the sharp turn (about 6f out ?) as well as the winner so I’m not of the view the ground did for him.
As I recall it winner found another gear coming out onto the racecourse proper, looked a fair result to me.

Easysland looks a near good thing to retain his crown assuming good health and form, though I said the same about Cause of Causes...