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Supreme Novice Hurdle 2019
- Thread starter Marty973
- Start date
and actually I'm not sure I do agree with it only being Sprinter Sacre and Buveur D'air.
My Tent Or Yours, if good enough to come 2nd in 3 CH's with a year break, should have been beating a stayer in Champagne Fever, who couldn't even beat Western Warhorse the year after
Santini - is almost certainly going to prove he was better after his novice season, yet to actually do it, but there is no way he's not a better horse than Kilbricken Storm, after just 6 months and a fence...under achieved (and he was quite open about that being 'the plan' and him being minded for fences, which is all well and good, but for actual talent and running around a field at 3 miles, he's just a better horse than he showed.)
Darlan - would it be hugely unfair to say he should have won the Supreme? He was that short for a CH and so well fancied. Unable to ever be proven but you can't say he 'over achieved' as a novice when he was expected to do so well in the CH. I think he under achieved with him on the face of it.
Simonsig -Doesn't prove that he was better as a novice. His Arkle win was brilliant as well... at best he did the same.
Bobs Worth - Tough horse, obviously did well in the Albert Bartlett, but again I'd disagree, it's harder to win a Gold Cup than an Albert Bartlett, so Bobs Worth was a better horse too after his novice campaign.
So, have any of those horses you've named actually been BETTER as a novice hurdler? I don't think we can say that at all
My Tent Or Yours, if good enough to come 2nd in 3 CH's with a year break, should have been beating a stayer in Champagne Fever, who couldn't even beat Western Warhorse the year after
Santini - is almost certainly going to prove he was better after his novice season, yet to actually do it, but there is no way he's not a better horse than Kilbricken Storm, after just 6 months and a fence...under achieved (and he was quite open about that being 'the plan' and him being minded for fences, which is all well and good, but for actual talent and running around a field at 3 miles, he's just a better horse than he showed.)
Darlan - would it be hugely unfair to say he should have won the Supreme? He was that short for a CH and so well fancied. Unable to ever be proven but you can't say he 'over achieved' as a novice when he was expected to do so well in the CH. I think he under achieved with him on the face of it.
Simonsig -Doesn't prove that he was better as a novice. His Arkle win was brilliant as well... at best he did the same.
Bobs Worth - Tough horse, obviously did well in the Albert Bartlett, but again I'd disagree, it's harder to win a Gold Cup than an Albert Bartlett, so Bobs Worth was a better horse too after his novice campaign.
So, have any of those horses you've named actually been BETTER as a novice hurdler? I don't think we can say that at all
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KingSprinterSacre
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Just to nit pick, while i did love Simonsig and was all over him the years of his neptune and arkle, his arkle wasnt that impressive. He was all out to beat Bailey Green from what i rememember. Gave me a scare on course that day
jono
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My point was on the "he doesn't get the best out of them" in their novice year rather than whether they are "better after their novice hurdle campaign". Clearly it's harder to win a Gold Cup than an Albert Bartlett
I'd hope and want to see all horses improve from their novice season (as Folksi points out and questions Mullins) otherwise there is either a problem/issue or they were just flattered. No one wants a Samcro...
My Tent Or Yours and Santini were the 2 favourites of his that have got overturned and you could arguably pick holes in that they should have done better in their novice hurdle races...
Santini - To use the good old cliche...anything he did other hurdles is a bonus etc etc...was an out and out chaser. To get him to come third in an AB when ground was against him could be argued as a positive towards Henderson rather than a negative?
My Tent Or Yours - 1/2 length 2nd behind Champagne Fever and ahead of the following years CH winner Jezki is picky. Even so, he was a horse who was incredibly keen early on and it took several seasons to really get to grips with him. Again, it could be viewed that Henderson did well to get him so competitive so early on in his career.
Not getting the best out of them, so that they can be better after their novice hurdle campaign.
I think we're saying the same thing :highly_amused:
MTOY won the Betfair, so it wasn't like he wasn't a good novice that year anyway, and Santini trained by another trainer may have done better in the Albert Bartlett. We'd never know, but it also may have been detrimental to a chase campaign, so he'd have been wrong to try if that's how he see's it.
I think we're saying the same thing :highly_amused:
MTOY won the Betfair, so it wasn't like he wasn't a good novice that year anyway, and Santini trained by another trainer may have done better in the Albert Bartlett. We'd never know, but it also may have been detrimental to a chase campaign, so he'd have been wrong to try if that's how he see's it.
Middle_Of_March
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Made the decision tonight to study every race over the next couple of weeks from scratch. Started with the Supreme and going from there.
Champagne Platinum is the one who stands out in my opinion. Will he run here do we think or the Ballymore?
Champagne Platinum is the one who stands out in my opinion. Will he run here do we think or the Ballymore?
Morley Street
Member
I’ve been looking at him closely too MoM. We all know trainers are creatures of habit and it’s interesting that he won the same introductory hurdle at Newbury that My Tent came second in on route to the Betfair. If CP is Hendos Betfair horse he could shorten significantly when the entries are out.
Middle_Of_March
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I’m quite tempted to have a few quid on.
However, I made a rule this season not to back horses antepost for this race. I ended up backing Felix Desjy and Annamix in November and was annoyed with myself for caving in.
If I was to have a bet on CP now, or would have to be NRNB. So for that reason, I may as well wait for some more bookies to go NRNB and hope one goes bigger than the 12s with Skybet. I’ll be interested to see if he’s their Betfair Hurdle horse. An informative race for the Supreme isn’t it despite being for all ages.
Maybe request a price for the double on the lads that fancy the bf hurdle he's 20s for that so maybe 150s the double to a small stake. Is that generous I don't know.
Or could roll it over
Middle_Of_March
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It’s very tempting. I want to see him entered first but I’ll probably play if Henderson says he’s running in the BH.
ComplyOrDie
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Have brought this one up plenty over the past week or so. Think he comes here tbh, JP has a bucket load for the distance novices, but is thinning out on his runners for this (that are going to be good enough). I think he has Didtheyleaveuoutto (not good enough), Champagne Platinum (remains unbeaten) & Epatante (surely Mares' Novice bound, could run here though?), that are possibilities IMO.
JP's potential horses for both the Ballymore & AB are Champ, Birchdale, Dickie Diver, Rhinestone, a hand that looks a lot more solid than his Supreme options, leading me to believe that Champagne Platinum is his Supreme horse for this season and I have backed accordingly, and with WH to get a boosted price, rather than the option of a cash out, that's my confidence in him coming here, whether he is good enough, well that's an entirely different matter altogether.
All being well can see TORNADO FLYER here. Hopefully put a line through LTO, drop in trip and let him dictate the pace.
ComplyOrDie
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JackieMoon33
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I haven’t mentioned this for a while but I did about fifty times early in the season - I can’t have Tornado Flyer for this because of his sire.
Cashew King
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Olly Murphy confirming Thomas Darby & Itchy Feet aimed at Supreme
Olly Murphy is considering stepping Thomas Darby up in both class and trip in the Mansion Bet Sidney Banks Memorial Novices' Hurdle at Huntingdon.
The Wilmcote handler has earmarked the extended two-mile-three-furlong Listed contest on February 7 as a potential target for the six-year-old.
The form of the Diana Whateley-owned gelding was given a significant boost on Saturday when Elixir De Nutz, whom he defeated on his hurdles debut at Cheltenham, claimed Grade One honours in the Tolworth at Sandown.
Murphy said: "We might look at running Thomas Darby in the Sidney Banks. I won't be running him, though, when it gets really soft. He will have one more run, then go for the Supreme.
"A good gallop over two miles is what he wants, but he should be fine over the trip in the Sidney Banks as long as he settles. We were giving the winner weight at Kempton (Mister Fisher) - and it was on ground he didn't like, and he was a bit keen. It was a good run - and the handicapper thought so, because he has put him up another 2lb. We've not seen the best of him yet."
A trip to Musselburgh could be on the cards for stablemate Itchy Feet, with Murphy leaning towards the Sky Bet Supreme Scottish Trial Novices' Hurdle.
He said: "We might go to trials day at Musselburgh with Itchy Feet, then go to the Supreme. He is rated 142, and I think everyone has forgotten about him. He has won a Listed race and was second in a Grade Two, giving Colin Tizzard's horse (Elixir De Nutz) weight. We have given him a winter break, and we will have him ready for the spring."
Olly Murphy is considering stepping Thomas Darby up in both class and trip in the Mansion Bet Sidney Banks Memorial Novices' Hurdle at Huntingdon.
The Wilmcote handler has earmarked the extended two-mile-three-furlong Listed contest on February 7 as a potential target for the six-year-old.
The form of the Diana Whateley-owned gelding was given a significant boost on Saturday when Elixir De Nutz, whom he defeated on his hurdles debut at Cheltenham, claimed Grade One honours in the Tolworth at Sandown.
Murphy said: "We might look at running Thomas Darby in the Sidney Banks. I won't be running him, though, when it gets really soft. He will have one more run, then go for the Supreme.
"A good gallop over two miles is what he wants, but he should be fine over the trip in the Sidney Banks as long as he settles. We were giving the winner weight at Kempton (Mister Fisher) - and it was on ground he didn't like, and he was a bit keen. It was a good run - and the handicapper thought so, because he has put him up another 2lb. We've not seen the best of him yet."
A trip to Musselburgh could be on the cards for stablemate Itchy Feet, with Murphy leaning towards the Sky Bet Supreme Scottish Trial Novices' Hurdle.
He said: "We might go to trials day at Musselburgh with Itchy Feet, then go to the Supreme. He is rated 142, and I think everyone has forgotten about him. He has won a Listed race and was second in a Grade Two, giving Colin Tizzard's horse (Elixir De Nutz) weight. We have given him a winter break, and we will have him ready for the spring."
A trip to Musselburgh could be on the cards for stablemate Itchy Feet, with Murphy leaning towards the Sky Bet Supreme Scottish Trial Novices' Hurdle.
He said: "We might go to trials day at Musselburgh with Itchy Feet, then go to the Supreme. He is rated 142, and I think everyone has forgotten about him. He has won a Listed race and was second in a Grade Two, giving Colin Tizzard's horse (Elixir De Nutz) weight. We have given him a winter break, and we will have him ready for the spring."
Adding Itchy Feet at 40/1 - I agree, Olly.
He said: "We might go to trials day at Musselburgh with Itchy Feet, then go to the Supreme. He is rated 142, and I think everyone has forgotten about him. He has won a Listed race and was second in a Grade Two, giving Colin Tizzard's horse (Elixir De Nutz) weight. We have given him a winter break, and we will have him ready for the spring."
Adding Itchy Feet at 40/1 - I agree, Olly.