Stupid Questions

[Spectre]

I’ve been dry since Boxing Day so I’m definitely in need of the run, every chance I set off too quick and end up treading water at the business end of proceedings.
And if I go OK Tue, every chance I bounce Wed...

Oooooh, that’s gonna hurt! :nightmare:

 

[Callum]

Genuine question also likely to be a stupid question as a relatively new fan... how useful are claiming jockeys in handicaps at Cheltenham? Do they have a decent record?

 

[DenmanSacre]

Genuine question also likely to be a stupid question as a relatively new fan... how useful are claiming jockeys in handicaps at Cheltenham? Do they have a decent record?

Gaultstats gives good information on how conditional jockeys have fared over the years in each handicap.

Generally they don't do well. But they are usually on a horse not that well handicapped and so they need to be value for their claim to do well. If you had a well handicapped horse, would you prefer a professional jockey who had ridden at Cheltenham many times, or a conditional who will allow the horse to carry less weight but isn't as experienced.

 

[Kevloaf]

Genuine question also likely to be a stupid question as a relatively new fan... how useful are claiming jockeys in handicaps at Cheltenham? Do they have a decent record?

There seems to be quite a following for Jordan Gainford... one to watch.

Although overall they're not seen as a positive.

 

[Deleted member 4957]

Although overall they're not seen as a positive.

No that’s right, but of course every pro was able to claim at some point so a young McCoy or Walsh claiming would have been a huge benefit.
No idea how good Gainford will end up being but if decent judges are talking the lad up then getting him on one of yours and taking 7lb off could be the difference...

 

[ToniC]

There seems to be quite a following for Jordan Gainford... one to watch.

Although overall they're not seen as a positive.

I was surprised we didn’t see him up on Milan native to be honest. Used same tactic last year & this year while
im not sure yet I want to be against him especially with juicy E/W terms he does look like he might need all the help he can get with the handicapper giving him no leeway despite a poor season.

I know Kennedy wouldn’t have had a ride in the race, but if they really are planning to use him on TBO you’d not want to be getting on a hope like that as your first festival ride, while MN is a fair horse with festival form I think it’s fair to say it would be unexpected for him to actually win, would have been a nice chance for him to get his first festival ride out of the way & be a bit more relaxed heading into the week

 

[Kevloaf]

I was surprised we didn’t see him up on Milan native to be honest. Used same tactic last year & this year while
im not sure yet I want to be against him especially with juicy E/W terms he does look like he might need all the help he can get with the handicapper giving him no leeway despite a poor season.

I know Kennedy wouldn’t have had a ride in the race, but if they really are planning to use him on TBO you’d not want to be getting on a hope like that as your first festival ride, while MN is a fair horse with festival form I think it’s fair to say it would be unexpected for him to actually win, would have been a nice chance for him to get his first festival ride out of the way & be a bit more relaxed heading into the week

Yeah possibly, but you don't leave a jockey of Jack Kennedy's quality sitting out.

I won't be upset if Jack's on TBO personally...he's class.

 

[Atlantic Viking]

Seen Jordan Gainford mentioned a few times by those much closer to the game and more knowledgeable than I ever will be, but there hasn't been huge amounts of evidence of the hype on the track. (Just got beat on the fav at Naas, bit of an odd ride but on that viewing theres a good chance the horse might turn out to be naff. Winner looked lovely.)
I've been impressed with Fergus Gillard whilst we're on the subject, still a 5lb claim. Not sure he'll be on board anything here though.

 

[Supermaster]

There's been discussion of the uphill finishes at Leopardstown and Cheltenham. Apparently the ascent is greater at Leopardstown but the gradient is steeper at Cheltenham since the ascent is over a shorter distance. What other courses compare to Cheltenham for an uphill finish?

Chepstow is undulating but the hill there is in the run from the stands I think. Also I recall Carlisle and Towcester have uphill finishes as does Sandown (RH)

Is there a good website for this information?

Also wind operations. I read somewhere there are different kinds and they're supposed to be straightforward - but they don't sound all that straightforward.
Does the horse have to go to some kind of surgery away from the stables to have this done?
Is it reasonable to be wary about betting on a horse on its first run after a wind op?

 

[Atlantic Viking]

There's been discussion of the uphill finishes at Leopardstown and Cheltenham. Apparently the ascent is greater at Leopardstown but the gradient is steeper at Cheltenham since the ascent is over a shorter distance. What other courses compare to Cheltenham for an uphill finish?

The easy answer in any year is that there isn't any, really. If this week has taught us anything, it's that Cheltenham form should really be listened to if it exists. Everything else is a guessing game where the courses involved are a footnote.

 

[Supermaster]

The easy answer in any year is that there isn't any, really. If this week has taught us anything, it's that Cheltenham form should really be listened to if it exists. Everything else is a guessing game where the courses involved are a footnote.

Yes I ignored Kettle yesterday - seems stupid now given her liking for the course

 

[Supermaster]

Why are the Irish trained horses doing better and better at the festival?

 

[PresentingPercy]

Why are the Irish trained horses doing better and better at the festival?

Short answer - better horses in training here.

Long answer - with the Irish economy and standard of living greatly improved since the late 80s, more wealth and prosperity in the country etc, we no longer need to export our finest animals to British buyers, the market for them at home is more than affluent to keep these horses from leaving the country. Coupled with good quality trainers, they are trained in Ireland also. Interesting to note, you get a lot of British owned horses trained in Ireland but not a lot of Irish owned horses trained in Britain (JP owned horses aside).

 

[robith]

Short answer - better horses in training here.

Long answer - with the Irish economy and standard of living greatly improved since the late 80s, more wealth and prosperity in the country etc, we no longer need to export our finest animals to British buyers, the market for them at home is more than affluent to keep these horses from leaving the country. Coupled with good quality trainers, they are trained in Ireland also. Interesting to note, you get a lot of British owned horses trained in Ireland but not a lot of Irish owned horses trained in Britain (JP owned horses aside).

Deffo a personality thing too - listen to De Bromhead talking yesterday about how much he's been tinkering, changing, evolving to catch up with Elliot and Mullins. Ruby talking about how some of Willie's got caught out one year by the starting tape so he trained them at home to run through the tape. All I ever see is Nicholls, Henderson and Skelton pissing and moaning about how unfair the world is to them

 

[Supermaster]

Short answer - better horses in training here.

Long answer - with the Irish economy and standard of living greatly improved since the late 80s, more wealth and prosperity in the country etc, we no longer need to export our finest animals to British buyers, the market for them at home is more than affluent to keep these horses from leaving the country. Coupled with good quality trainers, they are trained in Ireland also. Interesting to note, you get a lot of British owned horses trained in Ireland but not a lot of Irish owned horses trained in Britain (JP owned horses aside).

There are a lot of trainers so that last point about economy seems key

 

[That Horse]

Could someone explain to me what they mean when they say they're going to open up a book for a particular race?

Is it as simple as betting all of the horses that they believe has a chance of winning/placing or is there more to it than that? As each horse is likely priced up with different odds, I'm not really getting it!

 

[Odin]

I don't do it myself, but I believe yes it is as simple as backing all the horses you think could win it and therefore having several horses running for you (i.e. a book) rather than just one or two. With the prices being much longer now (for a race like the RSA anyway), you can have several covered and still make a profit if one of them wins. Getting the horses at bigger prices also gives you the opportunity to lay them at a later point if you want to as well - e.g. someone covered Bob Ollinger at approx 20/1 - he won't be that price if he wins a novice chase, likewise Gaillard Du Mesnil (40/1), Bravemansgame (20/1) and several others, so if you get them in early, you can still make a profit from backing so many as long as one wins!

 

[Eggs]

I don't do it myself, but I believe yes it is as simple as backing all the horses you think could win it and therefore having several horses running for you (i.e. a book) rather than just one or two. With the prices being much longer now (for a race like the RSA anyway), you can have several covered and still make a profit if one of them wins. Getting the horses at bigger prices also gives you the opportunity to lay them at a later point if you want to as well - e.g. someone covered Bob Ollinger at approx 20/1 - he won't be that price if he wins a novice chase, likewise Gaillard Du Mesnil (40/1), Bravemansgame (20/1) and several others, so if you get them in early, you can still make a profit from backing so many as long as one wins!

....and you can be ‘clever’ getting selections onside for small stake by using some of the options highlighted on here. For example, using another selection in a double (roll-up), or exploiting the ‘win today’ market (lots are on the likes of Shiskin, Bob O & Monkfish at big odds because of offers to ‘win RSA and next years GC etc).

 

[Spectre]

Odin's explanation is spot on. You don't need every possible horse, but you do want to cover any that you think can possibly win and place. This far out that usually means several horses. Hopefully it means you end up with all at the head of the market covered at long odds, and you've backed them in such a way that a profit is assured. Alternatively you may want to lay some on the exchange (win, place, or both), and guarantee a profit before those you retained run and take a bigger profit by using your judgement.

 

[Bayoffreedom]

Has anyone actually 'forked out' the 75 pounds (90 on Gold Cup day) to 'take advantage of' the early bird offer for Club tickets next year. If you're mad or desperate enough, then please rush to the Cheltenham site before 7th April.
It used to be that you had until September at the lowest price but it is getting earlier and earlier. And, once again, there is no apparent/easy way of finding out how many more increments before they end up at the outrageous 'day of races' price.
I say all of this despite the admission costs being a fraction of what it costs me to fly over (which I will do anyway just to have the craic) - it's just the principle!
After 30 years, my group is seriously considering other options next year - we certainly didn't miss the crowds this year!