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Gigginstown Split with Mullins

Istabraq said:
That's a staggering cost to train a racehorse, I am aware of trainers who charge £1600-£1800 a month (£20k a year) so Mullins charges appear astronomic.
Perhaps Ricci was quoted a different rate and O'Leary didn't like it ?

Unrelated of course but Giggs had a poor weekend with the well fancied Grotesque and Tocororo disappointing badly and Road to Riches well beaten in the G2 chase....
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I am shocked at that fee - I had always though going rate about £2k a month plus 10% of prizemoney. Maybe Mullins just charges a flat fee ?

( and Mayo sorry about the Gaelic).
 
Ista - From what I can work out, the price increase is ~£35 a week per horse, £2000 a week in total (for his 60 horses). I don't think his training fees are £2000 per horse per week, at least I hope they aren't!
 
Sorry Gents I may have misunderstood the £2k figure, I thought this related to the horse of each week per horse, it seems this is the increased cost of training Giggs horses from previous rate.
It took a while but I get it now....
 
Istabraq said:
Sorry Gents I may have misunderstood the £2k figure, I thought this related to the horse of each week per horse, it seems this is the increased cost of training Giggs horses from previous rate.
It took a while but I get it now....
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I thought the same Ista - now it doesnt make sense !
 
Faugheen_Machine said:
Ista - From what I can work out, the price increase is ~£35 a week per horse, £2000 a week in total (for his 60 horses). I don't think his training fees are £2000 per horse per week, at least I hope they aren't!
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This is what I had heard as well - from 350 - 385 euro per week when in training. To be honest, this doesn't sound too outrageous given the operation he runs. There have been mutterings of discontent historically because of 'compulsory medications' and mark ups on transportation so this may have been one thing too many. That being said. a 10% rise after keeping it flat for 10 years isn't too crazy. For comparison, I pay 245 per week (35 per day) when in full training and 12 euros per day when at grass.

I did a quick analysis of the Mullins Profit and Loss last week (all guesstimates of course) and there wasn't much in it for him once everything had been taken into account. Put it like this: it is doubtful that he is making what the leading exponent in one of Ireland's largest industries should be making.
 
Morning Glory said:
I am shocked at that fee - I had always though going rate about £2k a month plus 10% of prizemoney. Maybe Mullins just charges a flat fee ?
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I just checked on the HRI site and reminded myself of all the fees. Here goes: if a horse wins a 20000 Euro race the winner's prize money is 12500. After all the deductions the owner ends up with 9430. One of those deductions is the trainers share which, in this example, is 1178.75. This is what happens then:

Deducted from owner € 1,178.75
Industry Services Fund (ambulances/doctors) € 23.58
Sub Total € 1,155.17
Stable Staff Pension € 150.17
Racing Academy of Education € 57.76
Trainers' Benevolent Fund € 18.48
Blue Cross € 2.31
Irish Horse Welfare Trust € 2.31
Marketing Fund € 11.55
Irish Racehorse Trainers Association € 34.66
Net to Trainer € 877.93

In other words the trainer gets c7% of the winner's prize money.

When you consider all of the prize money Mullins earned in 2015/16 (about 5.6m pounds) every 1% makes a big difference.
 
Thanks Bof - great insight into costs of ownership. Mullins fees look very fair - tough game for anyone to make money at on those numbers - I am guessing prize money share is probably close to the trainers profit after costs.
 
Bayoffreedom said:
Deducted from owner € 1,178.75
Industry Services Fund (ambulances/doctors) € 23.58
Sub Total € 1,155.17
Stable Staff Pension € 150.17
Racing Academy of Education € 57.76
Trainers' Benevolent Fund € 18.48
Blue Cross € 2.31
Irish Horse Welfare Trust € 2.31
Marketing Fund € 11.55
Irish Racehorse Trainers Association € 34.66
Net to Trainer € 877.93
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BOF - Are those compulsory deductions that are applied to all trainers of a winning horse ?
It seems on a pro rata basis that owners deductions are less than trainers deductions....
 
Hi Istabraq. Yes they relate to all trainers of a winning horse; there are similar % deductions for placed horse prize money as well.
Using the same 20000 euro race this is how the owner ends up with 9430 euros:

Gross Prizemoney Won by owner € 12,500.00
Cost to Run € 200.00
Gross gain to owner € 12,300.00
Stable Employees Bonus Scheme € 355.50
Turf Club € 6.38
Stable Staff Association € 13.12
Stable Staff Association € 12.50
Jockeys Emergency Fund € 125.00
Net gain to owner before Trainer/Jockey deductions € 11,787.50
Trainers & associated funds € 1,178.75
Jockeys & associated funds € 1,178.75
Net gain to owner after all deductions € 9,430.00

The above includes entry fees but not riding fees (209.61 incl Vat for NH)
 
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Thanks mate, excellent insight that and not something I was previously aware of...
 
Understandable why owners like a bet.

In general no one getting rich out racing except Fred and his ilk.
 
mayo said:
Understandable why owners like a bet.

In general no one getting rich out racing except Fred and his ilk.
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Probably because the horses actually deserve the money but they can't spend it... They can't handle the coins with their hoofs
 
Does anyone have a list of exactly which horses have gone where? I was just thinking about ADO being Mouse's stable and it got me wondering. I have seen the big 3 are going to Elliott, but is there a comprehensive list of all 60 odd?
 
The Irish Independant listed 30 of them specifically:

Elliott
Apple’s Jade,
Don Poli,
Outlander,
Blow by Blow,
Lucky Pass,
A Toi Phil,
Roi des Francs,
Potters Point,
Stone Hard,
Monbeg Rose,
Sutton Manor,
Berry des Aulmes,
Barra,
Three Swallowsnick,
Dinaria des Obeaux,
Icario,
Empire of Dirt.

HDB
Valseur Lido,
Devil’s Bride,
Petit Mouchoir
and more...

Morris
Master of Verse,
Nampour,
Admiral Chief,
Mozoltov,
Milsean,
Bello Conti,
Wishmoor
and more...

O'Brien
Bel Sas
Arkwist
and more...

Meade
Measureofmydreams
and more...

I can't think of any other Gigginstown horse of the top of my head not listed there. Guessing the rest are made up of upcoming bumper horses and lower level horses
 
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