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JackieMoon33 said:
Average performance. Very green (plenty in the locker you’d imagine) in a slowly run race that they didn’t want to make the running in. Won nicely enough but the horse behind wasn’t up to much. Need to see him again in a better race with a stronger pace. Nothing to get excited about but also nothing to throw slips in the bin either.

The problem with Down Royal is no one is going to take Gordon on so his good horses are beating muck. In the bumper the other jocks did the right thing and didn’t set the race up for him and make it easy.
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Completely agree. I’d put him in the ‘unlikely’ category. I actually thought he wound it up nicely, but didn’t extend in the final furlong like I thought he might. The horse in second is with Emmet so who knows what it’s been up to.

i was surprised at how tall Classical Creek was. Really stood out. Quite a gangly frame though and very green.
 
Exar Essay said:
Completely agree. I’d put him in the ‘unlikely’ category. I actually thought he wound it up nicely, but didn’t extend in the final furlong like I thought he might. The horse in second is with Emmet so who knows what it’s been up to.

i was surprised at how tall Classical Creek was. Really stood out. Quite a gangly frame though and very green.
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He ran green in his point too as he couldn’t take a lead for any longer. So I believe there is a fair engine in there and I’d be hopeful he’ll improve a tonne with a proper pace to aim at.
 
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Have now watched the race. Won cosily I'd say and looked really green but he does give you the impression there's lots more to come. No doubt he'll be a threat in Bumpers but he'll make some chaser in a few years.
 
Was really impressed with Skelton's Mare Take No Chances at Whetherby. I'm half tempted to back her for March. Not sure if she's quoted anywhere.
 
Classical Creek just needs more experience. Take him to one of the Leopardstown bumpers so one of Willies gives him a race. Did it with Jalon last year.
 
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Lobos said:
Was really impressed with Skelton's Mare Take No Chances at Whetherby. I'm half tempted to back her for March. Not sure if she's quoted anywhere.
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She had Luccia beat before she fell away. Versatile trip wise so could end up in the Mares or various handicaps.
 
DenmanSacre said:
Classical Creek just needs more experience. Take him to one of the Leopardstown bumpers so one of Willies gives him a race. Did it with Jalon last year.
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Navan a more likely option in mid December? Tends to be the one he uses for winners of today’s race.
 
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Exar Essay said:
Navan a more likely option on mid December? Tends to be the one he uses for winners of today’s race.
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That’s the race I was expecting. Gordon could run two so that he can guarantee a decent pace.
 
Exar Essay said:
Navan a more likely option in mid December? Tends to be the one he uses for winners of today’s race.
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Yeah I think he'll end up there but no guarantee he'll be made to race like he would at Leopardstown over Xmas.
 
Enjoyed a recent email interaction with William Hill.

They sent me an email saying "We've put £5 cash in your account"

I thought "that's weird"

Opened it and it was just a load of slots offers.

About 3 hours later they sent another one "That was a mistake, ignore it"

Times have changed man. Toss me at least a £1 free bet for your errors and my mental distress eh lads
 
robith said:
Enjoyed a recent email interaction with William Hill.

They sent me an email saying "We've put £5 cash in your account"

I thought "that's weird"

Opened it and it was just a load of slots offers.

About 3 hours later they sent another one "That was a mistake, ignore it"

Times have changed man. Toss me at least a £1 free bet for your errors and my mental distress eh lads
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Had the same email. Thought strange you lot give me sweet FA. Then got the next email pmsl.
 
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Some interesting RPR's from Down Royal Day 1.
  • BDA - 155: That would have been sufficient to win 7 of the last 10 editions of the Mares Hurdle ... in November. Just 1lb shy of the RPR awarded to Lossie for winning last years running.
  • The Yellow Clay - 116: The worst RPR awarded to a winner of this race in the last 10 editions. Worse even than Zefiro Dodville who picked up the pieces last year when Better Days Ahead fell. 20 - 30lbs inferior to Gordon's graded level horses who have run here previously.
  • Firefox - 126: 9th of the previous 10. Again, significantly lower than Gordon's previous top drawer horses who have run here. 18lb lower than Found A Fifty when winning last years event. 21lb lower than Mighty Potter and Envoi Allen posted when winning this race. Lower even than his Bumper run on this day last year.
 
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Exar Essay said:
Some interesting RPR's from Down Royal Day 1.
  • BDA - 155: That would have been sufficient to win 7 of the last 10 editions of the Mares Hurdle ... in November. Just 1lb shy of the RPR awarded to Lossie for winning last years running.
  • The Yellow Clay - 116: The worst RPR awarded to a winner of this race in the last 10 editions. Worse even than Zefiro Dodville who picked up the pieces last year when Better Days Ahead fell. 20 - 30lbs inferior to Gordon's graded level horses who have run here previously.
  • Firefox - 126: 9th of the previous 10. Again, significantly lower than Gordon's previous top drawer horses who have run here. 18lb lower than Found A Fifty when winning last years event. 21lb lower than Mighty Potter and Envoi Allen posted when winning this race.
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Really strange one this because they started down valuing the Down Royal races last year (Down Memory Lane was really low off memory), but then they've got King of Kingsfield running a PB and Daddy Long Legs running to a better figure than when winning a Punchestown handicap by 5l. Surely that BDA value is too high?

And thus begins my annual scepticism regarding RPRs which eventually proves to be wrong when The Giant Bolster and Saxon Warrior trends come through with flying colours again :boxing::applouse:
 
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Odin said:
Really strange one this because they started down valuing the Down Royal races last year (Down Memory Lane was really low off memory), but then they've got King of Kingsfield running a PB and Daddy Long Legs running to a better figure than when winning a Punchestown handicap by 5l. Surely that BDA value is too high?

And thus begins my annual scepticism regarding RPRs which eventually proves to be wrong when The Giant Bolster and Saxon Warrior trends come through with flying colours again :boxing::applouse:
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I don't bet on the basis of an RPR, but it's a really useful second opinion that I use to inform decision making. It indicates the level of performance and I think you have to consider the manner in which that performance was delivered. DML wasn't extended at all last year in scoring an RPR of 113. The Yellow Clay was asked for a moderate effort this year (I thought anyway).

Also in respect of the DML race, of the horses in behind, only Bruccio really progressed - the others didn't progress much beyond the RPR awarded in that race. Furthermore, DML disappointed at Christmas. I don't thin 113 was too unfair a score.

You've also got the direct comparison from the same race last year where an average horse (who should've finished second had BDA stood up) scored 120.

It all adds to my thoughts anyway.
 
Exar Essay said:
I don't bet on the basis of an RPR, but it's a really useful second opinion that I use to inform decision making. It indicates the level of performance and I think you have to consider the manner in which that performance was delivered. DML wasn't extended at all last year in scoring an RPR of 113. The Yellow Clay was asked for a moderate effort this year (I thought anyway).

Also in respect of the DML race, of the horses in behind, only Bruccio really progressed - the others didn't progress much beyond the RPR awarded in that race. Furthermore, DML disappointed at Christmas. I don't thin 113 was too unfair a score.

You've also got the direct comparison from the same race last year where an average horse (who should've finished second had BDA stood up) scored 120.

It all adds to my thoughts anyway.
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Yeah, sorry - I actually don't mind the novice ones. You can only rate them on the performance they give at the time which is based on the opposition they come up against and what they actually have to do to win.

The Brighterdaysahead one I have more concerns about simply because I don't trust the two horses in behind but that's an argument anyone can agree with or disagree with based on actual form at least :encouragement:

And as you say, it's just an addition to the thoughts and vibes we have anyway so maybe I'm making too big a deal out of it - I just remember having sceptical conversations with several people about over rating rather than under rating some performances - Brighterdaysahead just struck me as another example of that which will be downgraded in 3 months.
 
Don't they sometimes change the Irish marks the day after. I think I saw them do that last year. Firefox is too low but as a fan of Mossy Fen Park for a handicap, I wouldn't mind if the handicapped thought his mark was low. Brighterdaysahead - her mark is slightly high but I'd have had it around 150-152 so 155 isn't too bad.
 
Odin said:
Yeah, sorry - I actually don't mind the novice ones. You can only rate them on the performance they give at the time which is based on the opposition they come up against and what they actually have to do to win.

The Brighterdaysahead one I have more concerns about simply because I don't trust the two horses in behind but that's an argument anyone can agree with or disagree with based on actual form at least :encouragement:

And as you say, it's just an addition to the thoughts and vibes we have anyway so maybe I'm making too big a deal out of it - I just remember having sceptical conversations with several people about over rating rather than under rating some performances - Brighterdaysahead just struck me as another example of that which will be downgraded in 3 months.
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I'd have no faith in DLL as a yardstick. But I think KOK is turning into a reliable performer on anything yielding or better. On a sounder surface at Down Royal, I felt he ran his race and to at least his best novice RPR. I'd provisionally marked it as a 140 and off that had BDA at around 152. I could certainly see them downgrading her performance a few pounds, but even at say 150, that's a lovely opening effort for a Mares Hurdle tilt.

I also think it interesting that over the two days, every race was run slower than standard. Except for the Bottlegreen Hurdle.
 
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