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Craigy14 said:
I might be wrong but after Impaire Et Passe’s win at Sandown, did WPM not mention something about a possible step up in trip for him? Tried to find post race interview but can only find PT’s.

His wins last season he seems to do it all very easily over 2m5f so another 3f wouldn’t be out of the question imo. He’s 6 going 7 and another summer on his back to strengthen up I’d possibly favour that than going down to 2m where he was beat twice last season.
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Whilst factually correct, I think it's incredibly harsh to slam IEP for being beat over 2m, not just yourself, but seen many mention it (probably even myself at some point), when the real fact is he's been beat twice by our current Champion Hurdler, a horse who has been beat just once (by an absolute freak) since his debut fall for Willie back in 2021.

IEP looks better over the intermediate trip because of the horses he is facing, IMO. He's beat the inconsistent (better last season) Bob Olinger, and 'I'm only ready to race in Spring', Langer Dan. He's beat little of note in comparison to losing to State Man.

I'd look at IEP's first run over 2m against State Man as his true running, beat only by 3 1/4 lengths. The second race they tried different tactics to try and get State Man beat, it didn't work and he ended up losing by further.

IF IEP went to the Arkle and Ballyburn didn't he'd be the highest rated hurdler doing so, by a fair way. His State Man form has him well ahead of the rest. I think Willie can do what he likes with the pair of them and probably have little to worry about.

I believe a few have noted on here previous that both need covering for either race, although the prices have somewhat crumbled since the news of the Turners being turned into a handicap, which isn't ideal.

A big conundrum though, nevertheless, and one that will probably roll on for a few more weeks yet.
 
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ComplyOrDie said:
Whilst factually correct, I think it's incredibly harsh to slam IEP for being beat over 2m, not just yourself, but seen many mention it (probably even myself at some point), when the real fact is he's been beat twice by our current Champion Hurdler, a horse who has been beat just once (by an absolute freak) since his debut fall for Willie back in 2021.

IEP looks better over the intermediate trip because of the horses he is facing, IMO. He's beat the inconsistent (better last season) Bob Olinger, and 'I'm only ready to race in Spring', Langer Dan. He's beat little of note in comparison to losing to State Man.

I'd look at IEP's first run over 2m against State Man as his true running, beat only by 3 1/4 lengths. The second race they tried different tactics to try and get State Man beat, it didn't work and he ended up losing by further.

IF IEP went to the Arkle and Ballyburn didn't he'd be the highest rated hurdler doing so, by a fair way. His State Man form has him well ahead of the rest. I think Willie can do what he likes with the pair of them and probably have little to worry about.

I believe a few have noted on here previous that both need covering for either race, although the prices have somewhat crumbled since the news of the Turners being turned into a handicap, which isn't ideal.

A big conundrum though, nevertheless, and one that will probably roll on for a few more weeks yet.
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I completely agree, probably should have expanded on what I’d said but was trying to get out the door :glee:

Being beaten by state man twice is no bad number as you say.
 
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Odin said:
"I'd say the trip has been a big help for him this year"

Hadn't seen that quote, but I like it in the context of this discussion. Less so with respect to me being balls deep on Dancing City for the RSA though :highly_amused::highly_amused::highly_amused:
https://www.racingandsports.co.uk/n.../impaire-et-passe-all-class-at-sandown/651325
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I’ve possibly got it wrong Odin to be honest haha!

Knew it was something about the trip. He seems to relish the intermediate trip that’s for sure so he’s one that is certainly impacted by the change most imo.
 
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I’m not sure IEP wants 3miles, he looked like he needed the line badly at aintree against bob olinger and langer dan. I don’t think he’d stay the distance in the brown advisory.
 
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Kautostar said:
I’m not sure IEP wants 3miles, he looked like he needed the line badly at aintree against bob olinger and langer dan. I don’t think he’d stay the distance in the brown advisory.
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Personally I thought more he idled and wouldn't hold that against him.

There are a decent few Novice chases over the intermediate trip in the Irish programme. I think Mullins will run him in these and use them to make a call before the Festival. So it will keep us guessing all season and I wouldn't rule IEP out of the BANC.

I do think it might make them minded to give Majborough a year over hurdles to let him mature for the novice chases next season.
 
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Kautostar said:
I’m not sure IEP wants 3miles, he looked like he needed the line badly at aintree against bob olinger and langer dan. I don’t think he’d stay the distance in the brown advisory.
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I would argue his Ballymore win and his win at Sandown in his final run of last season would see him not have any issues with 3m. He went away/ran on in both them races over 2m5f & 2m5 1/2f, and the Sandown finish is plenty stiff enough too.

I think he is very versatile.

It wouldn't surprise me if Willie believes he could travel all over the majority of those in the BANC, as he is most definitely one of those 'types' in how he races, then just a question as to whether he'd get up the hill or not.

So many questions, and no answers yet. Stable tours will be the start, and hopefully not long now until them now.
 
I’d imagine Willie will be thinking IEP has the class to stay 3 miles no problem
Id expect an arkle run to be unlikely unless his style of jumping and form points that way.
assuming he’s going chasing of course.
breeding looks ok for stamina IMO
I personally think his form is better over further but arguable for sure

not backed him for anything though
 
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Provided we get a stable tour update stating both IEP & Ballyburn go chasing then the NH Chase has to be a distinct possibility for Dancing City.

Not only will Willie already hold the aces with the aforementioned being available to him but the Donnelly's also have Shanagh Bob who could develop into a very good chaser, and if they were to attempt to split the pair you'd think they'd rather have Patrick on Dancing City in the NH Chase than Nicky running around trying to find an amateur from somewhere, not to mention Nicky's appalling record in the race (he doesn't really target it, IMO).

Dancing City has an abundance of experience over Shanagh Bob, is also 7 (going to be 8 come the festival), and travels well looking like he'd see the trip of the NH Chase out, as well.
 
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Possibly but I guess it also depends what they do with the NHC. Personally I think Dancing City has too much class for it as the race stands but see the angle l. If they degrade the NHC then I think he will take his chances in the BANC (if he can jump a fence).
 
darlojim said:
Theres plenty of rumours round that the NHC will be getting changed
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Yeah, seen some rumours, just wonder why they haven't announced something when they made the announcement about the other two races.
 
Just noticed I've had my free bets on IEP in the Turners returned with MGM which was a pleasant surprise. Their offers are pretty basic now,and most of my bets get referred but still get paid out OK, and withdrawals are straightforward.
 
The New Turners: it remains to be seen who will sponsor the new Turners hcp ch. But I thought it interesting to look back at the history of the race which in its G1 status was introduced in 2021. Before then it was a hcp (The Centenary Nov Chase). This race is now run at Sandown shortly before the festival. It will be interesting to see what happens to that race now. I seem to recall that at Cheltenham it was progressing into a high quality race before the introduction of a G1. The last winner in 2020 was Imperial Aura
(Galvin 2nd), there were 20 runners. In line with it becoming a good quality race the weight range was not extensive - I think in 2020 it was just 9lb. In 2019 it was won by A Plus Tard where weight rang was just 7lb with 20 runners. The ceiling was 145 I think. One might expect something similar in 2025 ie a narrow rating band but a competitive field and a race which will produce winners worth following.
 
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Doe anyone else get the feeling as though Ballyburn could end up like Envoi Allen? Hype horse who smashed a Ballymore field - talked up as future gold cup winner but never reached those heights? The hype around Ballyburn now reminds me of Envoi just before the start of his novice chase campaign… obviously the turners not being there means he has to go a different route but still feels very similar
 
Craigy14 said:
I’ve possibly got it wrong Odin to be honest haha!

Knew it was something about the trip. He seems to relish the intermediate trip that’s for sure so he’s one that is certainly impacted by the change most imo.
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Agree. He could just be a mid trip specialist which raises the possibility of missing Cheltenham altogether perhaps. I do not see him as a stayer around Cheltenham especially on the deep ground that we've seen in recent years. Arkle or nothing for me.
 
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