General Chat

[robith]

The BHA figure for Skelton has been out by about 10k for a few weeks now compared to the RP records - not sure what's happened there. I can't find the anomaly, but it seems the RP have him with an additional winner somewhere.

Maybe he submitted a falsified invoice to them for a winner

 

[Carnage at Taunton]

Acknowledging a situation is one thing, but you have to do something about it eventually or you're accepting defeat. They should be working backwards, why is Mullins better at sourcing horses for example? What has he put in place that we can learn from? Most of it goes from there. Instead it just feels like there's a dismissive attitude, a desperate hope it'll magically turn out to be cyclical. All the while Mullins gets better at his own game and were now looking at the British trainers being handed their arse on their own turf. Calling it the Willie Mullins festival when you send nothing over to take him on is pathetic. Sir Gino probably would win the juvenile race at the DRF but NH would rather fly over to watch the opposition instead. We got that great race between Shiskin and Energumene, one for the ages. Lets pretend it was in Ireland though, we all know what wouldn't have happened. It's a massive mountain to climb and nobody would suggest otherwise, but what are they doing to try? Mullins didn't get success handed to him on a plate. Recent talk of restricting numbers or it somehow being wrong or unfair that the Irish make up most of the National field completely misses the point and is a load of bollocks. When you see some of the money spent on ptp'ers for example that head elsewhere only to underwhelm it's not a pure money issue either. It's not good for the sport but WPM isn't the problem.

Yes, absolutely agree they have to do something about it and maybe some are trying to, but not sure how to be honest. It has to start by getting the best horses shared around like JP does with his.The Donnelly’s have their best horses in the uk as well as Ireland. After that though it seems WM is getting more and more of the high quality horses, and GE is quite well supported with some big spending owners as is HDB.
So that for me is where the issue of where to start lies.
Problem is owners see how successful WM is now and probably think it’s better to have their potential best horses with the most successful trainer.
NH has support from top owners and does have success with them and I honestly believe he tries to do his best for his owners while at the same time supporting uk racecourses. There’s a few top races in the uk close to the DRF.
I don’t know in what context his DRF comment was made, maybe he was just saying what happened this year which is true.
Im pretty confident he will want to have runners at Punchestown though.
Have other uk trainers commented on the DRF?
Cos we ain’t had many runners since it was invented as far as I recall.

 

[YoungHustler]

I just watch racing and couldn't care less if the Irish are dominating the English races or vice versa. Where the horses are trained doesn't take away my enjoyment and the discussions over the Irish winning more and Willie in particular for me are very tedious and boring. As a punter, first and foremost, it's just another element to consider when picking winners.

The quality of the Aintree races this was much higher than i can remember and i thought there were some cracking races. The Grand National is not the race it once was which saddens me as I grew up in awe of the massive fences and other factors that created the ultimate spectacle and test that drew me in from a very young age. Classy horses were rarely risked but the race has become so safe now which means it has become a classy handicap and therefore much easier to pick the winner.

 

[Hurricane fly]

I wonder if this year will put Dan Skelton into the frame for more goes at graded races instead of just being a handicap trainer (possibly harsh).

AV is right, there are a lot of very expensive horses in the UK who don't do anything so the number 1 place people need to start looking is at the people who are sourcing the horses for them. Ballyburn wouldn't all of a sudden have been a C4 horse running round Taunton if he went to Ben Pauling, yet he cost less money than Handstands

 

[Killiney]

I don’t think the authorities had much option but to make changes to the National fences otherwise we risk losing it all together. I used to love going ‘coursing’ but you cannot do that anymore in UK because of the ban. You might say there is a world of difference between the National and Coursing. But the people who protested against coursing and the National are of the same mind - that it’s cruel etc etc. ironically Altcar (venue for The Waterloo Cup last held in 2005) is just 8 miles away from Aintree. 8 miles is not far and 19 years is not long so in my opinion we should not be complacent .

On the subject of Irish dominance there is some justification for the view that there is a cyclical process. I remember, like many on the forum, when an Irish winner at the festival was a rarity. But change does not happen without action. Ireland did not sit back and do nothing. Nor can the UK racing authorities.

Does it matter? I think it does. Having one trainer running 5 horses in a 7 race field at the Festival is not healthy in my opinion. Apart from anything else there is potential for manipulating the race. We have already earlier in the season seen Patrick Mullins instructing his cousin Danny Mullins not to go up his inside. Regretfully (in my opinion) the Irish racing authorities took no action but at least they thought there was a need for a hearing. There are other reasons to be worried about dominance but I will leave it there otherwise this is likely to become a book!

 

[FinalFurlong91]

There aren't enough good horses in the UK to run in our own races let alone send them over to the DRF

Maybe more could be sent over to run I'm the handicaps but there's not many of those at the meetingmeeting british trainer did win one of them anyway with Madara.

 

[YoungHustler]

I don’t t

Does it matter? I think it does. Having one trainer running 5 horses in a 7 race field at the Festival is not healthy in my opinion. Apart from anything else there is potential for manipulating the race. We have already earlier in the season seen Patrick Mullins instructing his cousin Danny Mullins not to go up his inside. Regretfully (in my opinion) the Irish racing authorities took no action but at least they thought there was a need for a hearing. There are other reasons to be worried about dominance but I will leave it there otherwise this is likely to become a book!

I think it may not look good to the general public that the same owner has most of the runners in a small field but I'm sure that most racing fans will recognise that the trainer has to sometimes account for all his different owners. I think your example was Willie having the first 5 home in the Ballymore but it has to be noted that these were with different owners. I try and think positively so believe that each horse was running on their own merit to achieve the best possible outcome. It's not Willie's fault that he is the best and so owners want to have their horses with him.
Just want to also mention that Michael Dickinson had the first 5 home in the 1983 Gold Cup(after having the 1, 2 the previous years) and is lauded for that feat. Just imagine if Willie or some other trainer managed to achieve that in this day and age!

 

[Lobos]

Think Willie might give it a go next year. He already has 3 decent chances in Galopin, F2F and IAM. I'm sure he can come up with at least two others.

He could also quite easily have the 123 in the Champion Hurdle with Lossiemouth, Ballyburn and State Man.

All wonderful horses.

 

[Carnage at Taunton]

Think Willie might give it a go next year. He already has 3 decent chances in Galopin, F2F and IAM. I'm sure he can come up with at least two others.

He could also quite easily have the 123 in the Champion Hurdle with Lossiemouth, Ballyburn and State Man.

All wonderful horses.

Quite easily??!!!
Constitution Hill had an illness, he ain’t lost a leg!!
Plus Lossie could well go Mares and Ballyburn go chasing.
Apart from that………

 

[Lobos]

Quite easily??!!!
Constitution Hill had an illness, he ain’t lost a leg!!
Plus Lossie could well go Mares and Ballyburn go chasing.
Apart from that………

:biggrin-new:

If Constitution Hill doesn't come back then he could easily have the first 5 if you throw in Mystical Power and Absurd. First 6 with Vauban.........

He's got 7 of top 11 in betting!!!!

 

[Benjy23]

Mullins has entered a few at Ayr! :rapture:

 

[Benjy23]

Hendo has entered a few for Punchestown also! Would be nice if he actually ran some.

​​​​

 

[Carnage at Taunton]

:biggrin-new:

If Constitution Hill doesn't come back then he could easily have the first 5 if you throw in Mystical Power and Absurd. First 6 with Vauban.........

He's got 7 of top 11 in betting!!!!

Okey dokey

 

[archie]

Cost benefit analysis of the UK and Ireland is interesting.

In general, I'd say that training fees in Ireland are lower than the UK. Willie charges 425 euro per week for full training. I'm not sure what top UK trainers charge (Spectre?) but I believe it's more.

In contrast, prize-money at the lower levels is better in Ireland. For instance, last Thursday:
Limerick
Fillies maiden hurdle (top rated 114) had 7375 euro to the winner.
Mares NHF was 6490 euro to the winner.

Taunton
Novice hurdle (top rated 125) was £4955 to the winner.
NHF was £2722 to the winner.

The BHA was recently bragging about how they've boosted prize-money at the top grades. This was wholly unnecessary. JP couldn't care less whether I Am Maximus won £500k or £400k but they could have boosted 100 races at the lower levels by £1000 each which would have seen a better return for smaller trainers and owners.

I do have a left-field suggestion. We all know that Cheltenham would love a fifth day. Some of us will remember the days when Royal Ascot was Tuesday to Friday with Saturday's racing being 'Ascot Heath' with lesser races as a sort of wind-down. They could do the same at Cheltenham. Possibly move unpopular races (Mares/XC/Bumper) but also add races for lower rated horses, maybe 0-125 handicaps. Make these series finals restricted to UK trained horses and you're on the way to helping the people who keep the industry going day to day. Cheltenham snobs and the Irish could go home and normal racegoers could absorb the atmosphere at working man's prices.

 

[Faugheen_Machine]

Cost benefit analysis of the UK and Ireland is interesting.

In general, I'd say that training fees in Ireland are lower than the UK. Willie charges 425 euro per week for full training. I'm not sure what top UK trainers charge (Spectre?) but I believe it's more.

In contrast, prize-money at the lower levels is better in Ireland. For instance, last Thursday:
Limerick
Fillies maiden hurdle (top rated 114) had 7375 euro to the winner.
Mares NHF was 6490 euro to the winner.

Taunton
Novice hurdle (top rated 125) was £4955 to the winner.
NHF was £2722 to the winner.

The BHA was recently bragging about how they've boosted prize-money at the top grades. This was wholly unnecessary. JP couldn't care less whether I Am Maximus won £500k or £400k but they could have boosted 100 races at the lower levels by £1000 each which would have seen a better return for smaller trainers and owners.

I do have a left-field suggestion. We all know that Cheltenham would love a fifth day. Some of us will remember the days when Royal Ascot was Tuesday to Friday with Saturday's racing being 'Ascot Heath' with lesser races as a sort of wind-down. They could do the same at Cheltenham. Possibly move unpopular races (Mares/XC/Bumper) but also add races for lower rated horses, maybe 0-125 handicaps. Make these series finals restricted to UK trained horses and you're on the way to helping the people who keep the industry going day to day. Cheltenham snobs and the Irish could go home and normal racegoers could absorb the atmosphere at working man's prices.

Pushing £8 a pint isn't a working man's price!

 

[archie]

Pushing £8 a pint isn't a working man's price!

And one of the attractions of Plebs Day would be £6 a pint. Another would be a sniffer dog outside every Gents.

 

[Bonjers]

Updated BHA ratings of 150+ horses post Aintree:

Jonbon 170
Ahoy Senor 169
Shishkin 169
Bravemansgame 167
Protektorat 167
L'Homme Presse 167
Royale Pagaille 166
Edwardstone 164
Stage Star 163
Corach Rambler 162
Editeur du Gite 161
Pic D'Ohy 161
The Real Whacker 159
Elixir de Nutz 159
Boothill 158
Stay Away Fay 158
Sam Brown 158
Nassalam 158
Hitman 158
Grey Dawning 157
Haddex dex Obeaux 157
Threeunderthrufive 156
Thunder Rock 156
Midnight River 156
Ginny's Destiny 155
Stolen Silver 155
Ga Law 154
Master Chewy 154
Nube Negra 154
Al Dancer 154
Does He Know 154
Knappers Hill 152
Fugitif 152
Chianti Classico 152
Iroko 152
Tommy's Oscar 152
Two for Gold 151
Hang in There 151
Thomas Darby 150
JPR One 150
Zanza 150
Aye Right 150
Dusart 150
Eldorado Allen 150

Constitution Hill 175
Langer Dan 160
Strong Leader 159
Crambio 156
Not So Sleepy 155
Botox Has 152
Sir Gino 152
Caldwell Potter 151
Nemean Lion 150

Slim pickings is putting it kindly.

 

[Bonjers]

Updated HRI ratings of 150+ post Aintree

Galopin des Champs 180
El Fabiolo 175
Allaho 173
Fastorslow 170
Gerri Colombe 170
Hewick 169
I Am Maximus 169
Gaelic Warrior 167
Conflated 166
Corbetts Cross 165
Captain Guinnes 164
Noble Yeats 163
Blue Lord 163
Envoi Allen 163
Saint Sam 163
Gentleman de Mee 162
Journey With Me 162
Banbridge 161
Capodanno 160
Easy Game 160
Gentlemansgame 160
Il Etait Temps 160
Ash Tree Meadow 159
Coko Beach 159
Fact to File 159
Fakir D'oudaries 159
Asterion Forlonge 158
Dinoblue 158
Minella Indo 158
Delta Work 157
Monkfish 156
Gailard du Mesnil 156
Haut en Coulers 156
Inothewayurthinkin 156
Feronily 155
Found a Fifty 155
Janidil 155
Mahler Mission 155
Stattler 155
French Dynaminte 154
Allegorie de Vassy 153
Appreciate It 153
Jungle Boogie 153
Limerick Lace 153
Salvador Ziggy 153
Classic Getaway 152
Dysart Dynamo 152
Hunters Yarn 152
James du Berlais 152
Sanit Roi 152
Ain't That a Shame 151
Authorized Art 051
Intense Raffles 151
Minella Cocooner 151
Mr Incredible 151
Farouk D'Alene 150
Bronn 150
Visionarian 150
Blood Destiny 150
Dancing on my Own 150
Embassy Gardens 150
Facile Vega 150
Fil Dor 150
Heart Wood 150
Hercule du Seuil 150
Letsbeclearaboutit 150
Monty's Star 150
Spillane's Tower 150


State Man 169
Ballyburn 163
Teahupoo 163
Impaire at Passe 161
Bob Olinger 160
Irish Point 158
Flooring Porter 157
Sir Gerhard 155
Home by the Lee 155
Lossiemouth 155
Pied Piper 155
Buddy One 153
Hiddenvalley Lake 152
Sire du Berlais 152
Zarak the Brave 152
Slade Steel 151
Dancing City 150

 

[Benjy23]

Was just looking at Mullins Scottish National entries.

Mr Incredible may run again after unseating early enough yesterday?

​​​​​​20s into 7s this one. Assume he's likely to go again?

 

[Lobos]

​​​​​​20s into 7s this one. Assume he's likely to go again?

He's a proper monkey. Back him in running I'd say.