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General Chat

Lobos said:
Flooring has to be the best by a country mile doesn't he ? Dual winner, division doesn't appear any stronger this season, still an EW price. Can't see any chinks at all.
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Delta would be for me, theres literally nothing to beat bar a random french recruit but thats could just be another Prengarde :cower:

This year, him and Tiger finished 20 clear of anything else, and to think that was DW's first run over the XC track.
 
darlojim said:
Delta would be for me, theres literally nothing to beat bar a random french recruit but thats could just be another Prengarde :cower:

This year, him and Tiger finished 20 clear of anything else, and to think that was DW's first run over the XC track.
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Thought the same re Tiger this year but Delta came from nowhere to spoil the party. Just hope they don't declare something like Galvin for it to do the same again.
 
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Lobos said:
Thought the same re Tiger this year but Delta came from nowhere to spoil the party. Just hope they don't declare something like Galvin for it to do the same again.
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Il never forgive them for doing that to tiger

Absolute disgrace that was
 
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Lobos said:
Thought the same re Tiger this year but Delta came from nowhere to spoil the party. Just hope they don't declare something like Galvin for it to do the same again.
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Never heard so many Boo's towards a winner, crazy atmosphere post race it was.. The whole stands were silenced.
 
darlojim said:
Never heard so many Boo's towards a winner, crazy atmosphere post race it was.. The whole stands were silenced.
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The cheer over the last followed by the deathly silence as they went over the line while Jack was screaming with delight at winning - never experienced anything like it in any sporting event. Still can't believe it happened with two horses in the same ownership (but can at the same time given it was Giggi)
 
darlojim said:
Delta would be for me, theres literally nothing to beat bar a random french recruit but thats could just be another Prengarde :cower:

This year, him and Tiger finished 20 clear of anything else, and to think that was DW's first run over the XC track.
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Maybe Santini? Delta Work also looked like a horse that wasn't enjoying racing for the last few seasons, I wouldn't be confident that the same Delta Work will show up next year. FP is certainly way more consistent and sets a much higher bar.

Would argue Flooring Porter actually has a worse division this year with Thyme Hill going chasing. Aside from Langer Dan I can't think of anything from the Novice's that are going to fill that void. I'm sure something will switch back to hurdles to give it a go but looking pretty weak really. Really need to give that 5/1 a whack soon.
 
Dandrew99 said:
Maybe Santini? Delta Work also looked like a horse that wasn't enjoying racing for the last few seasons, I wouldn't be confident that the same Delta Work will show up next year. FP is certainly way more consistent and sets a much higher bar.

Would argue Flooring Porter actually has a worse division this year with Thyme Hill going chasing. Aside from Langer Dan I can't think of anything from the Novice's that are going to fill that void. I'm sure something will switch back to hurdles to give it a go but looking pretty weak really. Really need to give that 5/1 a whack soon.
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I couldn't have Santini for this at any price (within reason obviously) he just doesn't seem nimble or agile enough to deal with the twists and turns of this style of race. The XC is a truly unique test and not every horse will be able to deal with this type of race, I know Santini isn't with Hendo now but you just have to look back a few years to see how Might Bite got on when he was sent here for a rejuvenation, he was readily left behind in this race, and I'd say he's a far quicker horse than Santini.
 
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darlojim said:
I couldn't have Santini for this at any price (within reason obviously) he just doesn't seem nimble or agile enough to deal with the twists and turns of this style of race. The XC is a truly unique test and not every horse will be able to deal with this type of race, I know Santini isn't with Hendo now but you just have to look back a few years to see how Might Bite got on when he was sent here for a rejuvenation, he was readily left behind in this race, and I'd say he's a far quicker horse than Santini.
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It's a fair point, but do you not think a horse like Santini would be a bigger test for Delta Work than a Diesel Dallier, Shady Operator or Back On The Lash? I'd back Santini to beat the lot of them fairly comfortably.

Not sure Might Bite is the best reference point, he was a mid to high 140s horse by that point. Santini has shown that he maintains a higher standard than that. Not saying he should be favourite by any means, but it's hardly a strong bunch we are talking about outside of Delta Work.
 
Dandrew99 said:
It's a fair point, but do you not think a horse like Santini would be a bigger test for Delta Work than a Diesel Dallier, Shady Operator or Back On The Lash? I'd back Santini to beat the lot of them fairly comfortably.

Not sure Might Bite is the best reference point, he was a mid to high 140s horse by that point. Santini has shown that he maintains a higher standard than that. Not saying he should be favourite by any means, but it's hardly a strong bunch we are talking about outside of Delta Work.
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I agree that Santini would probably have those you named covered, but at the same time I'd have Delta Work in a different league to him. I've always envisioned Santini as a proper boat and one paced horse, and the test of the XC requires the ability to quicken off the sharp bends with an injection of speed, something I don't think Santini possesses one bit.

For all that Santini could relish the XC course, there is just as much chance that he is useless at the unique test of the track, couple that with the fact his trainer may be fully focused on going closer in the National this year and he is no certain runner in the race, he's just not one for me.

Good luck though if you're covering him!:excitement:
 
Facile Vega is just a rancid price. In a division where any number of new talents can come out of France or the Point field, a horse that hasn't yet jumped a hurdle in public, and could just as easily go up in trip to the Ballymore, and is a general 5/2 and as short as 2/1, must be the worst price I can recall for any antepost horse before a season has started, ever.

I think this is a new low for bookies. Can anyone recall a worse antepost price on a horse preseason before anything has even seen a racecourse?
 
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Spectre said:
Facile Vega is just a rancid price. In a division where any number of new talents can come out of France or the Point field, a horse that hasn't yet jumped a hurdle in public, and could just as easily go up in trip to the Ballymore, and is a general 5/2 and as short as 2/1, must be the worst price I can recall for any antepost horse before a season has started, ever.

I think this is a new low for bookies. Can anyone recall a worse antepost price on a horse preseason before anything has even seen a racecourse?
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Ante post is getting progressively worse but you’re right this is a disgusting price and no one should be backing that without some form of roll up or multiple angle. I’m hoping that this could just be an anomaly given he’s trained by Mullins and has a famous mother.
 
Spectre said:
Facile Vega is just a rancid price. In a division where any number of new talents can come out of France or the Point field, a horse that hasn't yet jumped a hurdle in public, and could just as easily go up in trip to the Ballymore, and is a general 5/2 and as short as 2/1, must be the worst price I can recall for any antepost horse before a season has started, ever.

I think this is a new low for bookies. Can anyone recall a worse antepost price on a horse preseason before anything has even seen a racecourse?
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Plus, whilst every horse is unique and recent record is ok, you're talking is it 4 I think horses to ever go on and win another festival race having won the bumper?

Maybe FV is the second coming of Concorde in equine form, but I don't see a huge case at the prices right now
 
Spectre said:
Facile Vega is just a rancid price. In a division where any number of new talents can come out of France or the Point field, a horse that hasn't yet jumped a hurdle in public, and could just as easily go up in trip to the Ballymore, and is a general 5/2 and as short as 2/1, must be the worst price I can recall for any antepost horse before a season has started, ever.

I think this is a new low for bookies. Can anyone recall a worse antepost price on a horse preseason before anything has even seen a racecourse?
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Agree whole heartedly spectre. Pointed this out a week or so ago and a one or two seemed to disagree. I think in general the hard done to attitude is not a good one and often cases unwarranted when the price is actually not so bad, but facile vega’s price is bad beyond belief for me. And it’s not even the case that they have racked up major liabilities and shortened because of it.

delta work & Allaho, while similar prices there can be no complaints. But you have already pointed out the many factors at play with him that there are not for these two at similar prices.
 
darlojim said:
I agree that Santini would probably have those you named covered, but at the same time I'd have Delta Work in a different league to him. I've always envisioned Santini as a proper boat and one paced horse, and the test of the XC requires the ability to quicken off the sharp bends with an injection of speed, something I don't think Santini possesses one bit.

For all that Santini could relish the XC course, there is just as much chance that he is useless at the unique test of the track, couple that with the fact his trainer may be fully focused on going closer in the National this year and he is no certain runner in the race, he's just not one for me.

Good luck though if you're covering him!:excitement:
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Gordon planting the seed for Galvin to go this route in his latest quotes in the Post. Probably not this season now but never say never...

"We're going to go the same route as last year with him," said Elliott. "He'll go to the big race at Down Royal after Punchestown, and that is going to be his Gold Cup. He surprised us last year but kept on improving and ended up in a Gold Cup.

"I suppose he's the sort of horse who could end up in a cross country chase in years to come, but we're going to start him off in the big staying chases again this year.

"He looks very well and he's in great form. We're looking forward to getting him back out at Punchestown and, as I said, the race at Down Royal next month will be his Gold Cup. He's being geared towards that," added Elliott.

Given his 'Gold Cup' is going to be early November, it does give them time to switch route for the Cross Country if they want to be double handed.
 
RoadToCheltenham said:
Gordon planting the seed for Galvin to go this route in his latest quotes in the Post. Probably not this season now but never say never...

"We're going to go the same route as last year with him," said Elliott. "He'll go to the big race at Down Royal after Punchestown, and that is going to be his Gold Cup. He surprised us last year but kept on improving and ended up in a Gold Cup.

"I suppose he's the sort of horse who could end up in a cross country chase in years to come, but we're going to start him off in the big staying chases again this year.

"He looks very well and he's in great form. We're looking forward to getting him back out at Punchestown and, as I said, the race at Down Royal next month will be his Gold Cup. He's being geared towards that," added Elliott.

Given his 'Gold Cup' is going to be early November, it does give them time to switch route for the Cross Country if they want to be double handed.
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Definite possible going from them comments, but he still has the potential to run very close in some G1 staying races yet.
 
Spectre said:
Facile Vega is just a rancid price. In a division where any number of new talents can come out of France or the Point field, a horse that hasn't yet jumped a hurdle in public, and could just as easily go up in trip to the Ballymore, and is a general 5/2 and as short as 2/1, must be the worst price I can recall for any antepost horse before a season has started, ever.

I think this is a new low for bookies. Can anyone recall a worse antepost price on a horse preseason before anything has even seen a racecourse?
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Completely agree, I think this is why so many go for roll ups these days, it’s almost a change of approach to antepost.

Prices for horses even 2/3 years ago were double what they are now and more, it’s ridiculous.

So to get the shorties or horses we see as having one of the best chances of winning on side, roll ups are the way forward imo. All about being select with it though, chasing any one horse can be a major fault of the system.
 
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Betting is not compulsory.

If you like the price then take it but if you don't then, as my granny used to say, you can do the other.
 
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ToniC said:
Agree whole heartedly spectre. Pointed this out a week or so ago and a one or two seemed to disagree. I think in general the hard done to attitude is not a good one and often cases unwarranted when the price is actually not so bad, but facile vega’s price is bad beyond belief for me. And it’s not even the case that they have racked up major liabilities and shortened because of it.

delta work & Allaho, while similar prices there can be no complaints. But you have already pointed out the many factors at play with him that there are not for these two at similar prices.
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I mean they won't have racked up 'major liabilities' on any Cheltenham horses at this stage but I'd imagine he's amongst the biggest, and is well ahead of anything else in the Supreme betting. E

Not to say he's a good price like but I don't really agree with this part. Hopefully he'll be pushed out, if we see one or two come out before him and perform well and get backed for this. Although with the way things are we'll probably just see others shorten and his price not move! :wink-new:
 
Benjy23 said:
I mean they won't have racked up 'major liabilities' on any Cheltenham horses at this stage but I'd imagine he's amongst the biggest, and is well ahead of anything else in the Supreme betting. E

Not to say he's a good price like but I don't really agree with this part. Hopefully he'll be pushed out, if we see one or two come out before him and perform well and get backed for this. Although with the way things are we'll probably just see others shorten and his price not move! :wink-new:
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Betfair and PP went 33/1, maybe as big as 40/1 for a time on Win Bumper 22 and Supreme 23 Double.

Skybet did similar for a while too.

So there could be more liabilities pre-Festival that have hampered his price post-Festival 22, with some firms.
 
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