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General Chat

Saxon Warrior said:
The best chaser I've ever seen.:encouragement:
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It's not an argument/discussion I like get into to be honest SW, so many will make a judgement that includes financial benefit which can skewer judgement.
Personally Remittance Man was about as good a horse as I've every seen, certainly the best jumper of a fence I've ever seen, career cut short by injury twice.
Sprinter, without doubt, will go down as one of the best chasers of all time, but so will Altior......
 
Istabraq said:
It's not an argument/discussion I like get into to be honest SW, so many will make a judgement that includes financial benefit which can skewer judgement.
Personally Remittance Man was about as good a horse as I've every seen, certainly the best jumper of a fence I've ever seen, career cut short by injury twice.
Sprinter, without doubt, will go down as one of the best chasers of all time, but so will Altior......
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Its the way Sprinter took his fences, and coasted, at speed, through races, not based on financial benefit (but I have plenty of favourites that are :highly_amused:).

Both Denman and Sprinter were the best 2M and 3M chaser I've seen, and health stopped them going on from their initial Champion Chase/Gold Cup onto the possibility of new heights - but performed heroically afterwards, despite those health issues.

Its all personal choice, and I certainly wouldn't seek to change anyones personal opinions, nor change my own. :devilish:
 
Istabraq said:
I made a point of going to the Cheltenham pre parade ring one year, if you can sneak to the front you are within touching distance of the horses and watching Sprinter going round was a unique experience as his muscle mass/make up was so different to anything I'd ever seen before.
His colour also gave him a fantastic shine so he was always a beautiful horse to view...
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Yep, I did the same at Sandown before he won his Tingle Creek. I was also at Doncaster when he made his chasing debut. I remember when they were unsaddling, Michael Easterby said to Lightning Rod "That's what a proper racehorse looks like". Felt a little sorry for Lightning Rod but sometimes it is better to hear the truth.
 
Timeforms Greatest Chasers

Highest Timeform Annual Ratings (Jumps - Chasers)
212 Arkle
210 Flyingbolt
192p Sprinter Sacre
191 Kauto Star, Mill House
187 Desert Orchid
186 Dunkirk
184 Burrough Hill Lad, Moscow Flyer, Long Run
183 Don Cossack, Master Oats
182 Azertyuiop, Best Mate, Captain Christy, Douvan, Carvill's Hill, Kicking King, See More Business, Well Chief
 
Didn’t Timeform come out and say some years ago that the Arkle and Flying Bolt ratings given were too high ?
It does seem crazy that it doesn’t look like any horse can ever get within 20lb of Arkle...
 
Saxon Warrior said:
Timeforms Greatest Chasers

Highest Timeform Annual Ratings (Jumps - Chasers)
212 Arkle
210 Flyingbolt
192p Sprinter Sacre
191 Kauto Star, Mill House
187 Desert Orchid
186 Dunkirk
184 Burrough Hill Lad, Moscow Flyer, Long Run
183 Don Cossack, Master Oats
182 Azertyuiop, Best Mate, Captain Christy, Douvan, Carvill's Hill, Kicking King, See More Business, Well Chief
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Long Run looks so out of place there....and Don Cossack actually.

Of course technically the breed is getting better and better so it's natural they are 'better' than previous horses....



It'd be really hard to explain Arkle and Flyingbolt's ratings to somebody new to the sport.
 
Kevloaf said:
Long Run looks so out of place there....and Don Cossack actually.

Of course technically the breed is getting better and better so it's natural they are 'better' than previous horses....



It'd be really hard to explain Arkle and Flyingbolt's ratings to somebody new to the sport.
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I'd back Sprinter getting 18lbs and 20lbs off Flying Bolt and Arkle.
I'm assuming they are a touch overrated, at 210 & 212, whilst being amazing horses. :D
 
Istabraq said:
Didn’t Timeform come out and say some years ago that the Arkle and Flying Bolt ratings given were too high ?
It does seem crazy that it doesn’t look like any horse can ever get within 20lb of Arkle...
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Yeah, call me cynical but it just don't sit right that two of the highest rated horses of all time by an absolute land slide happened to appear in the same few years four decades back, add the fact it has been mentioned that the ratings systems have been tweaked over the years. Just think how rare it is for a horse to get into the low 180s,never mid nudge 190 and scarcely believable to attain a mark of 200 these days, and with everything that has/is improving in sport over the years,it seems beyond belief that two horses could be so far ahead of anything(one could be half believable) given all the modern day changes and nothing get near them.

You cant deny there feats on paper look phenomenal mind.
 
Very true Outlaw, is it even believable that NH horse racing, according to ratings, peaked in the 1960’s when performances in every other sport bar none have made massive advances, just can’t be right...
 
Istabraq said:
Very true Outlaw, is it even believable that NH horse racing, according to ratings, peaked in the 1960’s when performances in every other sport bar none have made massive advances, just can’t be right...
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Rumour has it they were actually artificially created in the USSR as a trial run before they started on there athletes :devilish:
 
What kind of Timeform rating would Eclipse have?

He more closely resembled a cart horse than a modern thoroughbred and walked to all of his races. But his superiority over every other racehorse was such that his rating would look utterly absurd.
 
Kotkijet said:
What kind of Timeform rating would Eclipse have?

He more closely resembled a cart horse than a modern thoroughbred and walked to all of his races. But his superiority over every other racehorse was such that his rating would look utterly absurd.
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What an unbelievable era that was.
Not sure how ratings would ever be put together for any horses with that prep prior to racedays.
 
Yeah selfishly disappointed can't attend, but glad it's got the green light to take place. Everything else over here is pretty much taking away from us, non elite football, bars and restaurants all shut again!
 
Big Bucks said:
Yeah selfishly disappointed can't attend, but glad it's got the green light to take place. Everything else over here is pretty much taking away from us, non elite football, bars and restaurants all shut again!
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Think it will be the next step for us over here BB. Not going to be a great winter but racing continuing uninterrupted is a welcome tonic for us all!
 
Hardy Eustace said:
Think it will be the next step for us over here BB. Not going to be a great winter but racing continuing uninterrupted is a welcome tonic for us all!
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Yes, and you have to remember two things;
Firstly, the economic impact of no racing and sport in general, and secondly the fact racing has been on the go for 4/5 months and as far as I'm aware no transmission has taken place between those attending the racecourse proving that measures that have been put in place work.
Also, given the general apathy/damnright ignorance for existing rules by a significant proportion of people up and down the country, any attempt of a repeat of March lockdown restrictions is likely to create anarchy and the social issues that accompany that...
 
Istabraq said:
Yes, and you have to remember two things;
Firstly, the economic impact of no racing and sport in general, and secondly the fact racing has been on the go for 4/5 months and as far as I'm aware no transmission has taken place between those attending the racecourse proving that measures that have been put in place work.
Also, given the general apathy/damnright ignorance for existing rules by a significant proportion of people up and down the country, any attempt of a repeat of March lockdown restrictions is likely to create anarchy and the social issues that accompany that...
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Any early attempt to let 1000's back into Football grounds and racecourse, with alcohol on sale in pubs nearby, and bars open in the racecourses and football ground may well be abused by the same selfish minority too, and lead to measures against sport increasing. :dejection:
 
I really don't understand why fans cannot attend racing in controlled numbers. The vast majority of racecourses have tons of outside space, and it would be simple enough to steward (controlled indoor entry for things like toilets). It seems ridiculous that I can go down to my local spoons or the large Tesco and be surrounded by hundreds of people indoors, yet the notion of hundreds of people attending an event that happens outside in the open air is unacceptable.

IMO the whole rhetoric on this needs to shift to encouraging outdoor activities, not indoors (even as we head into the winter). You're far less likely to touch an infected surface outside than you are inside, and outside viral particles are quickly diluted by fresh air (droplets fall to the ground rapidly) so they can no longer be breathed in. It's so bleeding obvious.
 
The problem isn't the open air, it's the crowding around the bars. Plus, if the weather is crap, as it invariably is in the UK and Ireland, there will be an inclination to gather indoors.

I think that attending the races could be feasible but shutting the bars is a necessity. Even with the best will in the world and the most rigorous of protocols, common sense will inevitably fly out of the window if a handful of drunk people want to get a round in. Plus, if people are drinking all day, they are also pissing all day. The toilets at most meetings are shoulder to shoulder after the third race.

Personally, I love the idea of dry meetings but I am not sure that would go down too well with most punters. It certainly wouldn't go down well with the beancounters since I imagine a fair amount of a course's takings come from the bars.
 
I probably wouldn't go racing much if the bars were shut. It might be ok for the odd meeting but there's nothing better than dissecting the racing over a pint or two.
 
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