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EnvoiAlien said:
Just took the dog for a quick spin, and thinking about it, this might explain that Punchestown run, quicker ground than he'd like would aggravate his legs/joints, end of season even if he was a bit sore in the following days they would'vejust put it down to the ground and turned him out.
Comes back in fine but after training,a run and some more training his rider might've said he's not moving right, bit of heat in the area, if its all done he'll be grand and really it's better it's done now than it causing an issue nearer the springtime.
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The alarming thing is he won with his head in his chest on his chase debut so if he was uncomfortable, I can't wait to see him when he is 😀
 
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They move about mate, don't always hurt, but they can cause complications if they float into the wrong spot, probably why they thought get it done now rather than risk him being lame on a important day because of it.
 
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I can't make head nor tail of this Arkle market. It makes no sense to me

Lulamba 2/1
Romeo Coolio 4/1

I have nothing invested in Lulamba and have no interest in him but have the 14s on Romeo. This isn't pocket talk but I can't have in a month of Sundays what Lulamba has done is twice as good as what Romeo has. I bet all the tea in China the form of Romeo's races work out a million times better than those of Lulamba. He was very impressive at the weekend, he surprised me a bit but he beat handicappers giving him weight and he has that 5yo noose around his neck. Lulamba looks a very good horse, no doubt, but I think we are talking in terms of the exceptional when it comes to Romeo Coolio.

Take Kopek out of it. If the market consisted of these two at that odds disparity, i would be doing my absolute bollocks on Coolio.
 
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Yosser said:
I can't make head nor tail of this Arkle market. It makes no sense to me

Lulamba 2/1
Romeo Coolio 4/1

I have nothing invested in Lulamba and have no interest in him but have the 14s on Romeo. This isn't pocket talk but I can't have in a month of Sundays what Lulamba has done is twice as good as what Romeo has. I bet all the tea in China the form of Romeo's races work out a million times better than those of Lulamba. He was very impressive at the weekend, he surprised me a bit but he beat handicappers giving him weight and he has that 5yo noose around his neck. Lulamba looks a very good horse, no doubt, but I think we are talking in terms of the exceptional when it comes to Romeo Coolio.

Take Kopek out of it. If the market consisted of these two at that odds disparity, i would be doing my absolute bollocks on Coolio.
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Thinks NH knows how to train an Arkle winner @Yosser,hes done it 7 times dude.
 
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somer1 said:
Not a clue but Gino would have pissed it last year as a 5yo
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Based on what ?
Beating Ballyburn over 2 miles at Kempton getting 6lb ?
Or beating bum fluff in the fighting fifth handicap ?
 
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m.attheraces.com

The ATR article mentions the G2 at Naas on the Lawors of Naas card as a possible alternative. That’s only a week after the Christmas G1. I wouldn’t be too worried about him personally, it’s probably as much to do with the Paul Townend trip to Kempton as anything else.
 
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SeanRock said:

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m.attheraces.com

The ATR article mentions the G2 at Naas on the Lawors of Naas card as a possible alternative. That’s only a week after the Christmas G1. I wouldn’t be too worried about him personally, it’s probably as much to do with the Paul Townend trip to Kempton as anything else.
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Do we know if that’s on? I presumed it would be scrapped again now that the Racing Post Novice Chase is back at Christmas. It wouldn’t make sense to have two graded 2 mile novice chased within 10 days of one another. I don’t think the 2026 pattern book is out yet.
 
Exar Essay said:
Do we know if that’s on? I presumed it would be scrapped again now that the Racing Post Novice Chase is back at Christmas. It wouldn’t make sense to have two graded 2 mile novice chased within 10 days of one another. I don’t think the 2026 pattern book is out yet.
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Good point, it’ll probably just revert back to a novice chase.
 
Benjy23 said:
How many were 5yo?
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Thing is it’s not just Henderson who can’t train a 5 year old old to win The Arkle no one can. Or at least no one has since they took away the 5lb allowance in 2008 I think. Lulamba might change all that but history says no.
 
…..Chris Gordon added to stable tour thread.
 
Killiney said:
Thing is it’s not just Henderson who can’t train a 5 year old old to win The Arkle no one can. Or at least no one has since they took away the 5lb allowance in 2008 I think. Lulamba might change all that but history says no.
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Very few have been trained with the Arkle in mind. It has literally only been the last couple of years that the top trainers have entertained the thought. I'm a big believer in trends for Cheltenham but that is one that I am prepared to be very open minded on. If it isn't this season then it wouldn't shock me if it happens in the next five years.
 
Particularly given the quality of the juveniles we are seeing coming over here now
 
I think in a discussion when Hendo being his trainer is seen as a historic positive for the Arkle, then 5 year olds being seen as a negative is very fair like.
 
Yosser said:
I can't make head nor tail of this Arkle market. It makes no sense to me

Lulamba 2/1
Romeo Coolio 4/1

I have nothing invested in Lulamba and have no interest in him but have the 14s on Romeo. This isn't pocket talk but I can't have in a month of Sundays what Lulamba has done is twice as good as what Romeo has. I bet all the tea in China the form of Romeo's races work out a million times better than those of Lulamba. He was very impressive at the weekend, he surprised me a bit but he beat handicappers giving him weight and he has that 5yo noose around his neck. Lulamba looks a very good horse, no doubt, but I think we are talking in terms of the exceptional when it comes to Romeo Coolio.

Take Kopek out of it. If the market consisted of these two at that odds disparity, i would be doing my absolute bollocks on Coolio.
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I'd be a Lulamba backer in a match.

I think, as per his trainer, that Romeo needs 2m 4f to be seen to best effect. All this talk of Lulamba needing a step up is premature, IMO. They were clipping along at 34mph at one point in the Henry VIII and at no point was he looking outpaced. They won't get much quicker in an Arkle, maybe on the run down the hill for home, possibly 1 or 2 mph quicker, but he'll have the mix of speed and stamina required to get up that hill. I don't think Romeo, as per the Supreme last season, is quick enough to go with the principals. He had every chance to, as well. Obviously his jumping over fences is a massive positive, as that will be to his advantage, but it's not as if he was a terrible hurdler, he wasn't majorly inconvenienced by them, unlike Kopek who was less than fluent over them, and he still couldn't trouble the front two.

Both at Exeter & Sandown it looked as though they've tried putting Lulambas jumping under pressure early doors, and whilst he nearly pecked on landing at the first in the Henry VIII he had little trouble jumping at speed thereafter.

I have both covered, and gain similar returns from both, actually both more than Kopek, as far as singles go anyway, so I'm sat happy regardless of the result, I just hope they all get there in one piece, it's looking like some race on paper!

FWIW I think Kopek has the best 'engine' but I am now slightly concerned by this slight setback. It can never be ideal to miss an intended target. Hopefully all goes well from now until DRF for them.
 
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Runragged said:
Very few have been trained with the Arkle in mind. It has literally only been the last couple of years that the top trainers have entertained the thought. I'm a big believer in trends for Cheltenham but that is one that I am prepared to be very open minded on. If it isn't this season then it wouldn't shock me if it happens in the next five years.
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You are right to be open minded. It can be done but it is difficult. In the period from 1998 to 2006 there were four 5yo winners of the Arkle with varying weight allowances. At level weights three of the winners would notionally have been beaten but one of the winners (and the second) would have won even at level weights. So there has technically been a 5yo winner of the Arkle at level weights. Data below:

Champleve - received 8lb - only 4th best at level weights
Flagship Uberalles - Received 8lb - best horse at level weights (2nd placed Tresor De Mai, also a 5yo, was the 2nd best horse at the weights)
Well Chief - Received 4lb - 2nd best horse at level weights (admittedly to future gold cup winner Kicking King)
Voy Por Ustedes - Received 5lb - 2nd best horse at level weights
 
Quevega said:
Based on what ?
Beating Ballyburn over 2 miles at Kempton getting 6lb ?
Or beating bum fluff in the fighting fifth handicap ?
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No way of knowing for sure if SG would have pissed it, but I would imagine that the stable know SG is a far better 2miler than Jango.
 
They didn’t think jango was a 2 miler though did they ?
So how much do they know or does anyone know
 
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Carnage at Taunton said:
No way of knowing for sure if SG would have pissed it, but I would imagine that the stable know SG is a far better 2miler than Jango.
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I think the argument that 5yos can't win an Arkle at level weights is a bit daft. If they're good enough of course they can. If Willie thinks they can,I'm pretty sure that they can. Majborough should've, Sir Gino could've and Lulamba might. I don't think it'll be his age that beats him.
 
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