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2026 Champion Hurdle

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……and thats why she is still 14/1 for the CH, even when having such an encouraging first run of the season over Xmas and getting to within a length of Lossiemouth.…whereas Lossie is only 7/2

I think within that 14/1, apart from form, then there is a component around concern about her inconsistency and her past Cheltenham performances
Yeah
I’m not poo pooing anyone betting her for the race
Just some of the guesswork around her.
The biggest issue I’d have is the olearys not playing ball.
They’ve been noticeably quiet
She’d have to run and win in Dublin at least
If she doesn’t and still goes to the champion then I doubt she’s not a bigger price if all others still standing
A wtaf at Dublin is probably the bet if the odds are ok
 
The whole "race fitness advantage" clashes completely with the other mantra of "best when fresh".

Most of the time it's complete guesswork for punters not in the know.
Only really a trainer would have an idea on how fit a horse is in comparison to other occasions he/she has raced.
And even then this does not account for the horse just not putting it in on the day or coming up against something that was in flying form or the opposite. Plus many other racing factors, ground, weather, track, pace of race, tactics, jumping etc etc
So it's really a guessing game on the whole.

How many times do we hear trainers say a horse will come on for the run, only to run their best race on the day, and/or run below par on their next start ?
How many times are we told a horse is best fresh, then it runs it's best race when not fresh ? (Teahupoo a good example)

I tend to ignore a hell of a lot of this sort of stuff as it's blind thinking IMO.
Only when there's strong evidence to support something being useful. It is still not and never will be factual enough to ensure the correct "future" outcome. It is only something worth noting and affecting the bets you make.

For example a horse that has ran it's first race of the season for 3,4,5 yrs in succession and then went on to improve after that in his next start. Or vice versa, runs really well first up then tails off for the rest of the season. At least then the evidence is stacked up a bit more.

The same goes with horses for courses form.
It's really not sufficient evidence to have one bad run at a track, but as these stack up and are very clearly under par runs, then it's easier to judge.

Not full proof though by any means, none of it is.
That's horseracing.
 
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Half the time I think some of the trainers are guessing as well. On the flat, Aidan was the best Guineas trainer you've seen. Then after 2021 he can't train em. He's had two go off odds on, subsequent derby winners, and they've ran like 85 rated handicappers. No way is he leaving them short for a Guineas. He thinks he's got them where he wants them, he just doesn't know.

Horses that put in monster performances often don't go back there, I remember reading a good thread on it a while back on twitter. It's why horses that don't break the clock like State Man turn back up year on year. They won't reach the red zone again. One interesting one for that is Footpad - I can't remember the source, but he did his own speed figures on racing. He won that Arkle by some distance in that horrendous gallop and ran a monster clock time. Won at Punchestown but never returned the same horse, and bled under pressure the year after at Chelt again. Cyrname another clock monster who only won once after that bruiser against Altior, and even then he beat handicappers. Rest of the time he didn't even finish.

Gold Cup horses can be similar - ran at a breakneck gallop generally, championship pace over a staying distance, pushes horses to a place they'll never fancy going back to. Only issue compared to a human is they can't tell us they don't want to do that again.

For me, that combined with her cheltenham record just makes BDA hard to back. Interesting how they price up the rematch at the DRF.
 
Half the time I think some of the trainers are guessing as well. On the flat, Aidan was the best Guineas trainer you've seen. Then after 2021 he can't train em. He's had two go off odds on, subsequent derby winners, and they've ran like 85 rated handicappers. No way is he leaving them short for a Guineas. He thinks he's got them where he wants them, he just doesn't know.

Horses that put in monster performances often don't go back there, I remember reading a good thread on it a while back on twitter. It's why horses that don't break the clock like State Man turn back up year on year. They won't reach the red zone again. One interesting one for that is Footpad - I can't remember the source, but he did his own speed figures on racing. He won that Arkle by some distance in that horrendous gallop and ran a monster clock time. Won at Punchestown but never returned the same horse, and bled under pressure the year after at Chelt again. Cyrname another clock monster who only won once after that bruiser against Altior, and even then he beat handicappers. Rest of the time he didn't even finish.

Gold Cup horses can be similar - ran at a breakneck gallop generally, championship pace over a staying distance, pushes horses to a place they'll never fancy going back to. Only issue compared to a human is they can't tell us they don't want to do that again.

For me, that combined with her cheltenham record just makes BDA hard to back. Interesting how they price up the rematch at the DRF.
Wow yeah Cyrname. I backed him the day he absolutely hosed up. About 16/1 if I remember correctly and then backed Altior against him :LOL: and there was me thinking I knew everything
 
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Half the time I think some of the trainers are guessing as well. On the flat, Aidan was the best Guineas trainer you've seen. Then after 2021 he can't train em. He's had two go off odds on, subsequent derby winners, and they've ran like 85 rated handicappers. No way is he leaving them short for a Guineas. He thinks he's got them where he wants them, he just doesn't know.

Horses that put in monster performances often don't go back there, I remember reading a good thread on it a while back on twitter. It's why horses that don't break the clock like State Man turn back up year on year. They won't reach the red zone again. One interesting one for that is Footpad - I can't remember the source, but he did his own speed figures on racing. He won that Arkle by some distance in that horrendous gallop and ran a monster clock time. Won at Punchestown but never returned the same horse, and bled under pressure the year after at Chelt again. Cyrname another clock monster who only won once after that bruiser against Altior, and even then he beat handicappers. Rest of the time he didn't even finish.

Gold Cup horses can be similar - ran at a breakneck gallop generally, championship pace over a staying distance, pushes horses to a place they'll never fancy going back to. Only issue compared to a human is they can't tell us they don't want to do that again.

For me, that combined with her cheltenham record just makes BDA hard to back. Interesting how they price up the rematch at the DRF.
In light of the above then it makes me think of some of Dessies performances, both visual, clock and weight carrying and how on earth did he keep coming back time after time and year after year - rare
 
Lossiemouth now available at 6/1 with Hill !!!!!
 
Looks like Hills are happy to gamble on her lining up in the CH, but not the mares, similar to the stance being taken on the exchanges.
 
Looks like Hills are happy to gamble on her lining up in the CH, but not the mares, similar to the stance being taken on the exchanges.

Can't say I agree with this.

I'd say the exchanges have her 50/50. Think could argue they're leaning towards the champion hurdle if anything.

What odds would you make her on the day for each race?
 
Can't say I agree with this.

I'd say the exchanges have her 50/50. Think could argue they're leaning towards the champion hurdle if anything.

What odds would you make her on the day for each race?
9/4 & 4/9
 
Can't say I agree with this.

I'd say the exchanges have her 50/50. Think could argue they're leaning towards the champion hurdle if anything.

What odds would you make her on the day for each race?
Well the exchanges have her at 6.0 for CH to £186, 3.7 for £237 in the mares, I'd say those prices are the same as Hills myself with them going 5/1 & 5/2.

That'd depend on who lines up, I'd have have a strong fav in the mares, odds on infact, Champion Hurdle...right now I'd be around 5/2 as its a coin flip whether she lines up right now, I could be bigger after the Unibet & DFR though depending :)
 
So... At 5/2 (or 9/4) on the day and 5/1 antepost you (or Hills, or the exchange) have got her as odds on to turn up in the Champion Hurdle.

At 4/9 (the only price given) on the day in the Mares on the day compared to 5/2 antepost you've got her odds against to line up in the Mares.

Therefore the markets are currently favouring her running in the Champion Hurdle
 
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Lossiemouth won’t be as short as 4/9 IMO if going for the Mares Hurdle this year, as she would have a serious challenger and maybe the most serious ever in the race for her, Wodhooh

I’d have her as 4/6, around the price she has been for the last two years, as I dont think the bookmakers would want to lay over 4/1 about Wodhooh because she would be IMO a bet to nothing …..ideal for many of us each way theives! Apart from BDA who else is there less than 16/1?…...by an large it’s a 2 runner race isn’t it?

Remember Wodhooh is only rated 5lbs below Lossiemouth at the moment, was beaten just over 2 lengths by Lossie at Aintree after the festival last year (same distance as the Mares race) and is a year younger, so maybe open to a tad more improvement?

Lossie is being trained for speed at the moment whereas Wodhooh is showing the staying power kicking in after 2m……so maybe it isn’t a forgone concussion if the match happens…..therefore 4/6 not 4/9
 
Even at 4/6 I think my previous point applies... In that she'd still be odds against to run at 5/2.

But I agree she wouldn't go off 4/9 for what it's worth.
 
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Lossiemouth won’t be as short as 4/9 IMO if going for the Mares Hurdle this year, as she would have a serious challenger and maybe the most serious ever in the race for her, Wodhooh

I’d have her as 4/6, around the price she has been for the last two years, as I dont think the bookmakers would want to lay over 4/1 about Wodhooh because she would be IMO a bet to nothing …..ideal for many of us each way theives! Apart from BDA who else is there less than 16/1?…...by an large it’s a 2 runner race isn’t it?

Remember Wodhooh is only rated 5lbs below Lossiemouth at the moment, was beaten just over 2 lengths by Lossie at Aintree after the festival last year (same distance as the Mares race) and is a year younger, so maybe open to a tad more improvement?

Lossie is being trained for speed at the moment whereas Wodhooh is showing the staying power kicking in after 2m……so maybe it isn’t a forgone concussion if the match happens…..therefore 4/6 not 4/9
Yep I agree.
On the new course over 2m 5f I'd have Wodhooh a lot closer in the betting than some suggest.
Wodhooh certainly looks better this year than last.
They'd certainly be a lot closer at some point during the run up to the off.
If Lossie is in this race when she should be in the other, I know who I'll be cheering on.

Becoming similar to the year Honeysuckle won the mares vs Benie DD.
Think I went mad on both NRNB, thinking one would go champion and leave the other long odds on.
Will likely do something similar this year
I remember thinking they were mad at closutton for not trying Benie in the champion and only relying on Sharjah and Cilaos Emery.
And Honeysuckle after winning the Irish Champion should also have gone and maybe she'd have won three after all.
I think her Irish champion was a little underwhelming from memory so could understand that a little bit.

But this year would be even worse. As Lossie has shown 2 miles not a major issue.

Willie and co will do well to remember 2020 as they ended up with jackshit and the face on if I recall.
 
Couldn’t resist the Lossie price for churdle. Included her in a Yankee and a couple of doubles