2024 Champion Chase

[Carnage at Taunton]

Interesting as RPRs have the run as 10lb below his best and ranks only 8th on RPRs for all his chase runs.

I have to say I wasn't blown away, with there being massive holes in the form. Edwardstone looked to be below par and possibly wants further now. Nube Negra wants faster ground and Editeur Du Gite has lost his form. With Edwardstone and Nube Negra both also better coming off a strong pace with some cover and it is easy for me to question the run. That's not to say he won't improve or even win, but I was far more taken with Captain Guinness on Saturday than with Jonbon. Interested to see what the figures say when they come out considering he was giving weight and a beating to the field. However, he has also been there and failed several times at the highest level. Has he now taken his form to the next level and can he do it in grade 1 company?

Well I’m just saying what the Jockey said, and he also said he thinks he should stay at 2m, although trainer may be thinking differently.
I also thought CG ran well, but we all know what level he is by now.
Jonbon probably not met his ceiling yet as only 1 chase run as a senior.

 

[Carnage at Taunton]

CG very likely to go Tingle Creek so El Fabiolo will probably have as close to a walkover as is possible.

Well that’s interesting considering Jonbon beat CG pretty comfortably at Sandown as a novice.

Doubt we will learn much re EF if he gets a near walkover.

 

[Lobos]

Jockey said he was really pleased with Edward, said he’s back to his best form.
Its clear Jonbon is far better than any other 2miler in Britain.

I thought Eddie ran really well but no match on the day for Bon Jovi. Don't think they have any choice now but to step him up in trip unless they are happy with minor honours and decent prize money.

 

[charlie]

The way Jonbon travels and jumps is spectacular to watch and I defy any jumps fan not to enjoy watching him wing fences, but, IMO that lures people into thinking he's at the very very top level when in truth he's just a shade below being top top class. I am splitting hairs and you'd dream of owning him, but it's happened 2 years on the trot now. Beats up 3-4 runner fields from the front here in the UK hen goes to Cheltenham and finds one too good. I cannot wait to see EF serve him up again, it's going to be biblical.

 

[Carnage at Taunton]

The way Jonbon travels and jumps is spectacular to watch and I defy any jumps fan not to enjoy watching him wing fences, but, IMO that lures people into thinking he's at the very very top level when in truth he's just a shade below being top top class. I am splitting hairs and you'd dream of owning him, but it's happened 2 years on the trot now. Beats up 3-4 runner fields from the front here in the UK hen goes to Cheltenham and finds one too good. I cannot wait to see EF serve him up again, it's going to be biblical.

I would say one could wait until he’s had more than one run out of novice company before deciding whether he’s top class or not.
I will wait until March personally.

 

[charlie]

I would say one could wait until he’s had more than one run out of novice company before deciding whether he’s top class or not.
I will wait until March personally.

You're definitely chairman of the Jonbon appreciation society CAT. Cheltenham every year must be brutal :beaten:

Jonbon ran in open company at the end of last season so yesterday was his second run out of novice company.

It's tricky because unless Willie wants a clash I doubt we'll learn much about Jonbon that we don't already know pre Cheltenham.

He'll go Kempton and then maybe Ascot, beat fields I can count on one hand from the front made up of whatever dross we have here and then go Cheltenham.

Obviously thats not his fault and he can only do what he does, which he does extremely well, it's just shit for him that EF does it better :highly_amused:

At 7 turning 8 Jonbon could very well be improving, but then how old is El Fabiolo?

 

[Rooster Booster]

I would say one could wait until he’s had more than one run out of novice company before deciding whether he’s top class or not.
I will wait until March personally.

My advice. Save your breath. If you like Jonbon back him and just wait until march and wait and see. If yesterday’s performance didn’t make people think twice nothing is going to happen between now and march for them to change their minds. There is no Energumene to come over and provide a test and so the only race of any relevance either side of the water will be in march. Until then it’s whose dick is biggest and atm EF has all the bragging rights so it’s a totally futile debate imo. There was similar round in circles debate in last years Arkle thread and I believe you were very active in that but this year EF supporters have the added ammunition of being right. It’s an argument you can’t possibly win.

One thing I would say and it’s a relatively minor point …if people are referring to getting beaten by the best horse I have seen in my lifetime (just my personal opinion) as a failure then the benchmark has been set to an impossible level . The fact that he at least tried to win the supreme should be applauded and he had the resilience to come back from that ‘failure’ and record his highest rpr of the season which does say something for the horse.

Fwiw I think El Fabiolo wins the QM and could well build up a sequence and go down as one of the all time greats but that hasn’t happened yet.

 

[AaronLad]

You're definitely chairman of the Jonbon appreciation society CAT. Cheltenham every year must be brutal :beaten:

Jonbon ran in open company at the end of last season so yesterday was his second run out of novice company.

It's tricky because unless Willie wants a clash I doubt we'll learn much about Jonbon that we don't already know pre Cheltenham.

He'll go Kempton and then maybe Ascot, beat fields I can count on one hand from the front made up of whatever dross we have here and then go Cheltenham.

Obviously thats not his fault and he can only do what he does, which he does extremely well, it's just shit for him that EF does it better :highly_amused:

At 7 turning 8 Jonbon could very well be improving, but then how old is El Fabiolo?

Actually he's co chairman :wink-new:

He was a novice though the first time he ran in open company and that's what cat said.

Who else does willie have apart from el fab to clash with jonbon? a proper clash.

He will go cheltenham unbeaten, that's one thing we agree on. :applouse:

El Fab was better in the arkle, jonbon the previous season it's 1-1 :indecisiveness:

Bring on march

 

[Carnage at Taunton]

You're definitely chairman of the Jonbon appreciation society CAT. Cheltenham every year must be brutal :beaten:

Jonbon ran in open company at the end of last season so yesterday was his second run out of novice company.

It's tricky because unless Willie wants a clash I doubt we'll learn much about Jonbon that we don't already know pre Cheltenham.

He'll go Kempton and then maybe Ascot, beat fields I can count on one hand from the front made up of whatever dross we have here and then go Cheltenham.

Obviously thats not his fault and he can only do what he does, which he does extremely well, it's just shit for him that EF does it better :highly_amused:

At 7 turning 8 Jonbon could very well be improving, but then how old is El Fabiolo?

Ok, he’s ran once as a senior.
His last three runs are his best ones imo,inc the beating of the placed QM horses,so I think it’s fair to say he’s definitely improving, and we will one day find out where that takes him.
EF we have yet to find out if he’s improving into this season, but yes his age suggests he will.

EF certainly did it better in the Arkle and he’s fav to do that again, fair enough, but from what I’ve seen since that race, I think it could well be very close

Yes they both could well turn up in March having not had a hard race between them.

I think Charlie you are secretly a tad worried!!

 

[Rooster Booster]

My advice. Save your breath. If you like Jonbon back him and just wait until march and wait and see. If yesterday’s performance didn’t make people think twice nothing is going to happen between now and march for them to change their minds. There is no Energumene to come over and provide a test and so the only race of any relevance either side of the water will be in march. Until then it’s whose dick is biggest and atm EF has all the bragging rights so it’s a totally futile debate imo. There was similar round in circles debate in last years Arkle thread and I believe you were very active in that but this year EF supporters have the added ammunition of being right. It’s an argument you can’t possibly win.

One thing I would say and it’s a relatively minor point …if people are referring to getting beaten by the best horse I have seen in my lifetime (just my personal opinion) as a failure then the benchmark has been set to an impossible level . The fact that he at least tried to win the supreme should be applauded and he had the resilience to come back from that ‘failure’ and record his highest rpr of the season which does say something for the horse.

Fwiw I think El Fabiolo wins the QM and could well build up a sequence and go down as one of the all time greats but that hasn’t happened yet.

Should say best hurdler not horse btw

 

[Carnage at Taunton]

My advice. Save your breath. If you like Jonbon back him and just wait until march and wait and see. If yesterday’s performance didn’t make people think twice nothing is going to happen between now and march for them to change their minds. There is no Energumene to come over and provide a test and so the only race of any relevance either side of the water will be in march. Until then it’s whose dick is biggest and atm EF has all the bragging rights so it’s a totally futile debate imo. There was similar round in circles debate in last years Arkle thread and I believe you were very active in that but this year EF supporters have the added ammunition of being right. It’s an argument you can’t possibly win.

One thing I would say and it’s a relatively minor point …if people are referring to getting beaten by the best horse I have seen in my lifetime (just my personal opinion) as a failure then the benchmark has been set to an impossible level . The fact that he at least tried to win the supreme should be applauded and he had the resilience to come back from that ‘failure’ and record his highest rpr of the season which does say something for the horse.

Fwiw I think El Fabiolo wins the QM and could well build up a sequence and go down as one of the all time greats but that hasn’t happened yet.

I’m not trying to win an argument.
Just stating that imo it’s best to wait until a horse has had more runs out of his novice year before judging whether he’s top class or not.
In Jonbon’s case I suspect he will prove to be top class, as I do with EF.
They both have still to prove that imo.

 

[Rooster Booster]

I’m not trying to win an argument.
Just stating that imo it’s best to wait until a horse has had more runs out of his novice year before judging whether he’s top class or not.
In Jonbon’s case I suspect he will prove to be top class, as I do with EF.
They both have still to prove that imo.

But why bother are you looking for people to say yes okay? They won’t because they are convinced El Fab is better and you are trying to convince them to have an open mind… that is the argument you are trying to win and imo you can’t…but hey it’s a free world keep trying and we will have last years arkle thread again:emmersed:

 

[Carnage at Taunton]

But why bother

Yeah, you probably right

Liked your post by the way.

 

[Rooster Booster]

Yeah, you probably right

Liked your post by the way.

Apologies I sent post too early it wasn’t meant to be quite that abrupt :excitement:​​​​​​ full post on there now

 

[Carnage at Taunton]

Apologies I sent post too early it wasn’t meant to be quite that abrupt :excitement:​​​​​​ full post on there now

No worries . Read it now.
Nope I’m not bothered about swaying peoples minds.
And as you say, that would be futile in this case anyway.
I do think it’s advisable to have an open mind though with novices going into the big league,but respect we can all think differently.
Definitely don’t want another Arkle thread, so will bear that in mind!!

 

[FinalFurlong91]

Footpad won the arkle for the same owners by half the track at age 6 and only won one more race in his life

Strange things happen, they aren't machines

And el fabiolo is a seriously crap price, no value at all there

Its like a NRNB price


Get better evs shots running every weekend and you don't need to worry about them getting injured

 

[DenmanSacre]

Jonbon a 172 RPR for yesterday compared with El Fabiolo a 172 for the Arkle and 173 at Punchestown.

Both hopefully improve over the season. Nicky doesn't think Jonbon jumped as well as he normally does in the Arkle. If he improves there and El Fabiolo doesn't jump cleanly, places could be reversed but at the moment, I'd be firmly in the El Fab camp.

 

[FinalFurlong91]

Jonbon a 172 RPR for yesterday compared with El Fabiolo a 172 for the Arkle and 173 at Punchestown.

Both hopefully improve over the season. Nicky doesn't think Jonbon jumped as well as he normally does in the Arkle. If he improves there and El Fabiolo doesn't jump cleanly, places could be reversed but at the moment, I'd be firmly in the El Fab camp.

The way el fabiolo jumps I suspect he may end up with Moscow flyer esque form figures

It's hard to see him not unseating or falling with the chances he takes

 

[YoungHustler]

Get better evs shots running every weekend and you don't need to worry about them getting injured

Totally agree. You also have some people trying to roll up Constitution Hill at 1/2. Each to their own but i'm happy to and am able to leave a Festival winner at that price.

 

[FinalFurlong91]

Totally agree. You also have some people trying to roll up Constitution Hill at 1/2. Each to their own but i'm happy to and am able to leave a Festival winner at that price.

Yeah iv not had a bet in either race